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Tarendai
10-20-2010, 10:28 PM
http://www.obsidianfields.com/lj/nonmonogamy2.5.1.gif

What are our thoughts on this? ( diagram and in general )

ebby
10-20-2010, 10:34 PM
That is the messiest fucking diagram I've seen in a long time. (puns intended)

Whut? Clarity please! Flow charts! They're simpler!

Tellurium
10-20-2010, 11:43 PM
Or just a list of the different concepts and the associated quotes. This visual representation is pretty appalling.

Pretty colours though.

As for NonMonogamy itself, I really don't have any thoughts. It's really up to every person to decide what arrangements work for them and their partner(s)/whatever(s) and that's great as long as everyone's happy. Monogamy in a long-term relationship is what works best for me as I'm perfectly happy with just one partner, and have never really been able to have "just sex".

Octopussy
10-21-2010, 06:48 AM
That is hard to read.

What are my thoughts? Whatever works, that's my thought. It's stupid that monogamy for life is considered the standard when it obviously does not work for a lot of people, and anything else is supposed to be hush-hush and shamefully taboo.

EnjoyJoy
10-21-2010, 08:45 AM
That diagrams sucks... if it's intended to be funny, weeeeell

Anyway, monogamy is what would work for me. Right now. I am not totally against the idea of changing my mind eventually, but I'd rather stick to monogamy for various reasons. (not gonna lie, insecurity being one of them) A friend of mine is in an open relationship and I think they have a great system going for them, but it just doesn't appeal to me right now.

other pete
10-21-2010, 11:06 AM
Open relationships seem like so much effort. I'm kind of joking but the humdrum side does fascinate me. I was always fervently monogamous when first out, which early OMGayfreinds repeatedly explained was being gay "wrong" :rolleyes: I wavered for a time. Now I'm in a monogamous LLLTR (so DM me bitches) (j/k) (unless you gon' do it).

Can't get enough of that top-right-of-the-diagram "Unicorn Polyarmory (http://games.adultswim.com/robot-unicorn-attack-twitchy-online-game.html)"

I've always been jealous of people who can just "have some sex" and enjoy it regardless of who it's with, it makes it seem so easy. Not that that's the case with all polyversity doodah setups, but it's the part of their grass that looks greenest.

Pub exchange a while back:
"When you've got the world's finest fillet steak at home, why would you go to a mangey takeaway?"
"Because sometimes you want it greasy?"

The Seaward
10-21-2010, 07:54 PM
"I'm too busy for a relationship. So are all my partners."

Whappo
10-24-2010, 10:50 PM
I think I'm too insecure for anything but monogamy, and even that's pushing it. I'm more interested in just being with myself and believing that I'm awesome in my own little world. Awesome!*

That diagram is bad and you should feel bad.

*actually that's defensive bullshit, I'd be all over the right person if they showed interest. But until then I continue to be AWESOME and I continue to go "hmmmmmmm eyebrow raise" at non-monogamous relationships.

Scottish Mike
10-25-2010, 05:10 AM
That diagram is bad and you should feel bad.

I think it just caused me to stroke out.

I'm the same as you Mansdrew, waay to insecure for anything but monogamy, albeit less awesome :(

EnjoyJoy
10-25-2010, 09:31 AM
Yay for the insecure peeps! Let's make a support group.

The Seaward
10-25-2010, 09:55 AM
it's been years since i've gotten all worked up about a guy enough to feel insecure. the way i conduct my social/romantic/sex-life these days works far better for me than how i did things when i was younger. i don't get attached, i have fun. the guys i sleep with, whether it be a one-off thing or something more regular, are on the same page. i don't do random hook-ups because i'm cautious about disease and like to know a guy first before we hit the sheets. when i'm in the mood for some slap and tickle, i know where to find it, no strings attached. it works for me now. things may change in the future, but i have no qualms about the present. at this point, i can't imagine drawing someone into my life for a full-on "relationship". things are just too weird.

Alejandro
10-29-2010, 03:58 PM
I have always been able to "just have sex" with other guys and then just walk away without a second thought. I can do monogamy, but I prefer to be free to do what I want with who I want when I want.

It just works for me.

Tarendai
10-30-2010, 02:28 AM
That one person is all you need, anymore is greedy, but alas, other people want different things, who am I to judge

ebby
10-30-2010, 02:22 PM
That one person is all you need, anymore is greedy, but alas, other people want different things, who am I to judge

Judgmental much? I love how you make a really judgmental statement and then say "who am I to judge" after just doing so.

"greedy"? isn't that the same slander usually thrown at bisexual people?

fox in socks
10-30-2010, 02:50 PM
That diagram is weird. I'd prefer it as a piece of art with lots of pretty colors, hold the text. I'm not sure what non-monogamy has to do with greed. Do you feel like you'd be overindulging by having more than one party, thus you should be praised for your discipline? Personally, monogamy has always been the default, despite my attempts at the opposite. My first girlfriend ("girlfriend") was of the non-monogamous type. I tried to accept but failed miserably. Not sure if it's insecurity (probably) and/or laziness (I've not got the energy to spread my emotion around), but it's certainly not some sort of martyrdom.

Frangipani
10-30-2010, 03:12 PM
*cough*whythisforum*cough*

I dont value monogamy. Life is too short. I do value love, family and all the rest of the goodies that come from relationships.

Tarendai
10-30-2010, 03:17 PM
For my viewpoint, my situation, and my needs, any more is greedy. But I cant say the same of other people with other needs and other views on things, I've known people who've started off in monogamous relationships and had a very real need to re-evaluate things, and while I can say that's not what I want, I can understand why they would do that. Perhaps I should focus on my wording in future.

civilised syllabub
10-30-2010, 03:19 PM
I actually think that non-monogamy has the potential to be about generosity rather than "greed." For a truly open relationship between two people to work, you have not only to be secure enough to accept that your partner is attracted to others (which is something that monogamous people need to come to grips with, too) but also to be giving enough to be okay with your partner acting on those other attractions. It can't just be about one person wanting to have fun on the side; it has to be equal parts give and take.

Frangipani
10-30-2010, 03:39 PM
I actually think that non-monogamy has the potential to be about generosity rather than "greed." For a truly open relationship between two people to work, you have not only to be secure enough to accept that your partner is attracted to others (which is something that monogamous people need to come to grips with, too) but also to be giving enough to be okay with your partner acting on those other attractions. It can't just be about one person wanting to have fun on the side; it has to be equal parts give and take.

Exactly. I think it's greedy to think it is your right to possess your partners sexuality. Actually i think it has to do less with greed than it does with what we're conditioned to find acceptable (or rage worthy) in the movies and musics. There's really no other option presented.

Whappo
10-30-2010, 03:52 PM
You're a bunch of whores and you'll BURN IN A LAKE OF FIRE. Please rethink your greediness. For the good of your souls.

Thank you.

Frangipani
10-30-2010, 04:21 PM
OH SHOOOOOT ITS HALLOWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN

Tarendai
10-30-2010, 11:58 PM
We've been damned the moment we got here!

I know people in open relationships and I can understand that if my partner wanted one I'd be open to the idea but it would be highly unlikely as they would need a damned good reason for it, and there'd need to be rules. Personally I would feel bad though, I tend to feel like I belong to someone rather than they belong to me, which is probably my downfall (and probably a very unhealthy feeling anyway but heh). I've had enough discussions with friends in open relationships to know that theyre not all they're cracked up to be, your just trading one set of problems for another.

EnjoyJoy
10-31-2010, 02:24 AM
Yes, I do agree that you can see NonMonogamy as generous enough to think, "yes you can sleep with other people and I won't mind" and I'm not foolish enough at all to think that anyone would be attracted to me and only to me, but just as you can see NonMonogamy as generous you can also see Monogamy as prioritizing, you know, caring enough about someone to not sleep with someone else just because you're attracted to that person and you've agreed.

Do I think open relationships can work? Yes, I think so. There are all kinds of people under the sun and of course, to some it can work fine, for others it could end disastrously. I know it would be very, very hard for me to be able to function in an open relationship. I would get the feeling that I'm not good enough and I wouldn't be able to shake the thought that if I were better at this or that, if I were less this or that (in short, if I were more perfect) he wouldn't want/need to have an open relationship. That's just the way my mind has been wired because of nature or life or both or whatever. Other people aren't like that. Other people can function in an open relationship. It would be hard for me. End of story.

Larala... I've had a few beers... can you tell? ;l

Tarendai
10-31-2010, 02:48 PM
hah Enjoyjoy, I see what you mean, most people I've known in open relationships, one of them does more than the other, and they have rules. They tell eachother about who they intend to go and do things with beforehand and they can veto before anything happens, and its just physical, any emotional attachment beyond good friends is cheating.

It has its problems, but most Im aware of that are succesful are monogamous longterm relationships that became open releationships after several years, for one reason or another. Maybe sex with the same person all the time for years isn't fulfilling anymore for them on its own, or one partner has never done anything with anyone else and it's a chance for them to explore themselves rather than resenting the other partner, there's all sorts of reasons for it.

I've come across people in open relationships from the get go, and from what I've seen they don't last longer than 6 months on average. Open relationships take work to be successful, and they're not for everyone. For example, some people find it easier to seperate friendship and sex, whilst others in open relationships find its a very real problem that they struggle with.

Frangipani
10-31-2010, 03:49 PM
hah Enjoyjoy, I see what you mean, most people I've known in open relationships, one of them does more than the other, and they have rules. They tell eachother about who they intend to go and do things with beforehand and they can veto before anything happens, and its just physical, any emotional attachment beyond good friends is cheating.

It has its problems, but most Im aware of that are succesful are monogamous longterm relationships that became open releationships after several years, for one reason or another. Maybe sex with the same person all the time for years isn't fulfilling anymore for them on its own, or one partner has never done anything with anyone else and it's a chance for them to explore themselves rather than resenting the other partner, there's all sorts of reasons for it.



I suppose there's more than one way to go about it, but the thing i see with a lot of women is they want to say they want an open relationship but only to test their guys' libido, or to see if he's actually capable of it. And of course he is and of course it breaks their little hearts every time. Or how about that girl (again, why is this a GAY thing in a GAY forum?) who wants to be the 'really cool girlfriend' and try to get a 3some together (who post ads on matchmaking sites they they are gods gift to mankind). I've noticed that a LOT, maybe 50% + are not really into sleeping around, they just want to be *that girl* who takes her man's sexuality to the limit. That's where i see it failing. When someone is doing it out of a weird voyeuristic, insecure motivation that they, themselves arent really aware of. They want it to go there, or test the person/relationship/ and get all the juicy details about it too. I never understood the whole "lets fuck other people and tell each other EVERY FUCKING DETAIL, I am in control, i veto this i approve this". If you trust your partner to go out and have sex with someone and stay safe doing so, then why do you need to know the whos and the whys of it all? Again, i think its weird voyeuristic & insecurities at play here. I mean seriously, do you ask your partner when they masturbated last and to what? How entitled to your partners sexuality are you?

Tarendai
10-31-2010, 04:05 PM
Unless you have a fetish for that kind of thing...

Frangipani
10-31-2010, 04:08 PM
I never thought about it like that, but BDSM and monogamous relationships do have a lot in common in terms of sex & control.

stillorbiting
10-31-2010, 04:48 PM
*cough*whythisforum*cough*

Good question. I'm a straight female and I'm very interested in this topic. I guess I'll just post my thoughts here anyway!

I've been doing a lot of thinking about monogamy over the last few years, and on a theoretical level, I've decided I like the idea of open relationships / dating around / not just being committed to one person. If monogamy works for people, great, but to me it's just a social construct, not something we're built for. But can I put that into practice without getting all weird and jealous? I have no idea. So I figure the only way to find out is to dive in and try it. As such, I'm going on a date with someone in an open relationship next week. If I end up liking him, will it bother me that he's with someone else? I'd like to think it won't, but I guess we'll see. If it goes well, I'll keep seeing him and also try a date with someone else, and let it spiral naturally.

Tarendai
10-31-2010, 05:01 PM
Ah do you mean a polyamorous relationship?

other pete
10-31-2010, 07:45 PM
You'd never me down to one woman - i wanna be tied to at least 3!

JayPeaches
11-01-2010, 06:58 PM
I personally like being in monogamous relationships. I've been in open relationships* before and ended up realizing that I didn't love/like either of the people I was seeing so I dumped 'em both. I like having a partner in life, just not necessarily for life. There's a fine line between running at the first sign of trouble and staying in a relationship that's not working, and I'm not sure where exactly that line is...but I definitely feel like this idea that marriage has to be FOR LIFE is potentially setting yourself up for failure.

That said, I know that monogamy doesn't work for everyone. The key is to just communicate to your partner what your needs are so that no one gets hurt (or at least isn't caught unawares).

* That's misleading, really. I've never been in a long-term relationship with someone who was okay with me seeing other people (or visa versa), but I have been in situations where I've dated someone for a while and wouldn't commit to being monogamous with them.

EnjoyJoy
11-01-2010, 09:08 PM
Yes, I agree that whether an open relationship might work or not has everything to do with communication. Actually, same with monogamous relationships. My mom believes in serial monogamy (at least that what she told me when she divorced my dad) but I also have her sister and her husband, plus my dad's brother and her wife that have been in one marriage and are still going strong... and my dad's parents. My mom's parents are a special case, they were together and commited and death did them part, but, my grandma was my grandpa's second wife, so, it gives me hope in case I fail a marriage.

eresos
11-29-2012, 06:25 AM
so glad i found this thread. have been seeing a guy for about a year who just told me he thinks he is polyamorous. trying to ready up on it and all its configurations and it was good to read what some people here thought on it.

we were both raised in very traditional families and we both have some anxiety and depression and he has some manic tendencies as well. i am wondering both about whether or not some of that is driving the compulsions for it and also the potential impact on the mental health issues on a polyamorous relationship as if just one wasn't hard to navigate. maybe it is easier? would love to hear more thoughts.

I love him very much at this point and would hate to end things but do not think I could handle being in a long term relationship with someone who is seeing other people. just seems like way too much work. too much potential drama.

The Markness
11-29-2012, 12:53 PM
Emotional monogamy is a must for me, but physical monogamy is a non-starter for the Husband-Elect and myself, not the least of which is because our libidos aren't always in sync (he's at a constant 10, all the time, every day, whereas mine kind of ebbs and flows). But as we've discovered over the years, ground rules and CONSTANT open communication about what our expectations are and how we feel about things are the only way to make that kind of thing work and keep the relationship stable/flourishing. It's not always a picnic, and it's certainly caused strife at one point or another, but in the long run I feel like it's the right decision for us and that it's actually solved or forestalled more conflict than it has caused.

(We still, however, primarily have sex with each other, and regularly. Even if you're horny bastards like us and you just like gettin' it on with other dudes, I think you have to maintain that physical connection with your partner. It would be weird to me if we were having hookups on the side and then never having sex with each other. :-/)

eresos
11-29-2012, 02:09 PM
thanks for your input.

i am trying to get a handle on how i feel about this. i really care about this guy more than i thought i could. especially knowing early on he cheated on his wife that he still was in love with. he's got a lot of issues and a lot of baggage but i connect with him more than i have anyone else ever and even find some of his crazy actually helps me be more connected to him.

but the idea of him being in other relationships and never being exclusive with me ever is a hard pill to swallow after a year.

he still isn't so sure if that is what he even wants but was beginning to consider the fact that he may be polyamorous. the way he briefly described it to me was that I would be a primary and then he would make out from time to time if he met someone. it made it sound like they wouldn't be emotional relationships but I wonder. I think it could be a slippery slope for him and he had trouble with boundaries before in past and he also seems to have repeated behaviors/compulsions that lead him to engage in exessiveness be it drinking, eating, work...and he can be impulsive and not always think through consequences or how his actions impact others. insensitive, selfish, and narcisistic.

this makes me feel like the behaviors, including the hook ups, might be more of piece of a bigger overarching issue, an emotional distraction from some eternal pain/avoidance, or just part of his manic bi-polar state, or ocd issues. i don't know.

written out it sounds pretty bad, huh? but he is also very loving, passionate, engaging...and full of qualities I really connect with. so as he figures it out with his therapist and his self, i want to explore how i feel about it and get ready in case this is the path he wants to live.

i really don't think i could handle it, but want to know why since he already means so much to me rather than a knee jerk flat out no way.

Ryan
11-29-2012, 07:43 PM
I think if you're uncomfortable or unsure about it then you need to be honest with yourself and make that clear to him. Don't get yourself into a situation where you allow him to do something that upsets you or makes you unhappy, just because you love him and want him to stay. This is probably going to hurt you most in the long run. An open, honest dialog is important.

eresos
11-29-2012, 08:07 PM
thanks for your input everyone.

He is still figuring out what exactly HE wants, so I don't really know what he is looking for. It is good to hear your perspectives on open relationship and experiences with how they work or don't.

I always had a hard time with commitment and yet when I am with someone I don't find myself straying, but long term it can get boring.
So I think I am more against it for what others would think of me and worry that sticking to the boundaries would be problematic. I think openess and communication are the key and that continuing emotional and physical connectivity going more than any outside connections is also important. I also think that sex with others is not an option at all and I don't think I could handle him in long term emotional relationships with other women. but maybe flirting and even light making out may not be an issue as long as he shares it with me and we talk about it...

currently we have not stated and exclusivity terms but now it has been a year and we need more definition to our connection...

thanks again!

Whappo
11-29-2012, 10:25 PM
I have very little advice (sorry), I'm just piping in to say that I have done a complete 180 on my earlier stance in this thread. Almost immediately after those posts I found myself in a relationship that I'm still in (we live together!), and we are completely okay with being Unicron polyethylene whores. Diff'rent strokes, etc.

Stumpy
11-29-2012, 10:55 PM
These situations are so tricky and it helps to know the sort of person who is seeking the polyamorous relationship. Open relationships are not my cup of tea personally but they work for a lot of people and fair play on that. But from what I understand there need to be a lot of defined boundaries that everyone is comfortable with before it can be viable in a relationship and that's an important aspect. Case in point: my brother says it is "impossible" for him to be with one woman only and really pushed an open relationship on his other half (with whom they have a child). He has/had a history of cheating anyway and it may be a way of justifying it, but either way she wasn't really happy with it. She started meeting with a bloke and he got jealous despite his "indiscretions". They are still together but I think he's still up to no good whereas she has no interest in it. I think both parties need to be okay with it 100% before it can work, otherwise there is so much room for jealousy and betrayal.

/stating the obvious, sorry.

Dan
11-29-2012, 11:26 PM
I think that for a polyamorous relationship thingie to work, both partners have to essentially be equally whorish and equally attractive. Otherwise, it's just a free pass for one of the two to constantly cheat openly and get away with it.

If some guy tells you "oh, I'm polyamorous", and you've never seen yourself as such, the writing's on the wall. Sure, you can try, but the chances of it being productive are rather slim. It's even worse if you're really in love; this fucking idiotic feeling has this ability to completely reverse our ideologies and make us discard our morals and self-worth and whatever the fuck else, as we'd do anything for that person or for them to love us back with the same intensity. It seems to me you're setting yourself up for misery.

eresos
11-30-2012, 01:05 AM
again. thanks for the insights.

I really appreciate it and am certainly concerned about this new epiphany my friend had. since he is still uncertain how he feels and what he wants, i will wait and see, but I don't want to be talked into getting into an agreement that is not in my favor and all your words are strengthening me to be strong and not accept things that I wont find acceptable past tomorrow.

I have always had commitment issues for long term but taken day by day I enjoy being with just one person. More into sensuality than sexuality and it takes a lot for me to in order to feel safe and comfortable with my partner so that is why I am so concerned if he decides he needs to live polyamorous life now.
I have already given him a strong indication that I would not be open to openess but will to hear him out once he figures out what he means by it.

Lágnætti
11-30-2012, 01:06 AM
early on he cheated on his wife that he still was in love with.


he had trouble with boundaries before in past


and he also seems to have repeated behaviors/compulsions that lead him to engage in exessiveness be it drinking, eating, work...and he can be impulsive and not always think through consequences or how his actions impact others.


insensitive, selfish, and narcisistic.

Oh dear god, if you like drama and being treated like crap, continue with this guy. If you don't, move on. Past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. Everything you've said is about YOu compromising for HIM. Everything is about you adjusting to HIS complicated little internal life and alleged needs and not him to any of yours. Classic narcissist.

Kala
11-30-2012, 02:58 AM
I think you should consider yourself fortunate that he expressed his feelings about polygamy before he acted on them. You say you want to wait to hear him out and of course that's your prerogative, but from my perspective I could never trust the person again even if he told me he changed his mind and doesn't think he wants a polyamorous relationship after all. If someone I cared for told me he might be interested in intimacy outside our relationship it would hurt like hell but I would be out of there so fast. There's just no amount of love in this world that would cause me to choose to remain in that situation.

There's nothing wrong with open relationships as long as both parties want it that way.

fox in socks
11-30-2012, 07:50 PM
monogamous or other, this person sounds like he has a lot (read: a shit ton! danger! danger!) of baggage. i guess naughty girls need love too......

whatever relationships one has, i agree communication and honesty are key. if youre "not sure what [you] want", you'd better sort it before i spend the time/energy on it.

if he's really fine, i'd probably just fuck him and call it a day. especially if he's so flaky. the grass is probably greener and more stable elsewhere.

eresos
12-01-2012, 07:32 PM
thanks. he cleared up his head more with the therapist. he also realized what I did, that he would be mis-er-a-ble going the polyamorous road and it was just a way of reacting to his fear of commitment/intimacy with me as we were getting closer & he is also getting closer to having fuller closure with his ex.

i painted a pretty ugly picture of him, not fair to him, but more expressive my major worries with his interest in the polyamorous world.
yes. he has baggage, but his baggage and our way of communicating and working through our emotional issues is actually very very good. we work and talk things through and are very co-supportive in that way. yeah he is a little ocd & bi-polar and is struggling with his bad relationship with his ex, but I too am struggling with the major failings of my past relationships, anxiety and depression. we are actually pretty good at helping each other work through our baggage and lightening the weight of them together...

but I do know now that if polyamory comes up again, after discussing it here and reading more up on it, I will have to stand my ground and say good bye b/c it is not a life I think I am equipt for, but think it would be good in theory just not for me.