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fox in socks
11-12-2010, 05:59 PM
can it be done?!!?! im wondering if anyone has had a serious friend-relationship change once baby is in the picture. ive known a couple people who just became dead boring after baby was around, when every conversation was about or steered toward baby. i have another friend who wasn't so baby gaga until the kid started to have some issues, and then every conversation turned to her convincing me (herself) what a star said kid was ("omg he's got SOO many words! heres a list....").

i get that kids=compromise, but i get a little over the "hey want to do something tomorrow?" me: "sure what time?" mom/friend: "dunno. depends on babys nap schedule"....true, i get a little bitchy when its suggested i leave chunks of time open for maybes, depending on babys schedule. anyway, i wonder if any of you non-baby havers experienced any friendship changes when one becomes ye old parent. or vice versa, if youre a parent who enjoys this little forum.

JayPeaches
11-12-2010, 08:44 PM
My BFF had twins 5 years ago and literally dropped off the face of the earth for about a year. Now that they're older and she's divorced (when Dad has the kids she is free), our relationship is pretty much back to the way it was.

I've had some other friends who became really annoying after having kids, though. One of them (I've mentioned her before - the one whose hella bratty was picking up cat litter with her bare hands at my house) drives me up the wall. I really don't even talk to her anymore. I can't have a phone conversation with her cause her kid literally screams, yells, whines, and talks NONSTOP. We're on the phone and all I hear is, "Minga!!! MINGA! MINGA!!!!!!! I want a sandwich now I'M HUNGRY! Who are you talking to? Why? STOP TALKING!" And my friend just keeps on talking, like I can even hear her over all that insanity. Oh, and we went to see that Neverland movie, the one with Johnny Depp...and she cried during the whole thing, saying, "That little boy reminds me so much of Frannie!" WTF? Frannie was a 6-month-old baby at the time. UGH. Barf.

sara
11-14-2010, 07:49 PM
One of my best friends is a new parent and yes, the friendship has changed. We don't live in the same city so we usually talk over MSN. We used to talk about music for hours, share weird YouTube videos, talk about ninjas (he's got a black belt in some kind of ninja jiu jitsu) and just general life stuff. Now every conversation turns to the kid. And he tries to send me at least 5 pictures every time we talk. I get that he's happy and likes being a dad, but I don't need to know your kid's daily poop schedule, thx.

SparkleMotion
11-15-2010, 07:12 PM
^^That's the kind of stuff that, as a parent, I don't get. Do I talk about my kid? Of course. But if I'm talking to a friend or we're out and about, the last thing I want to be thinking about is my spastic bundle of annoyance joy back home. And if he's yelling in the background trying to get my attention, God help him.

My best friend is CF all the way. I was talking to her about the issues in this thread and we're both trying to figure out if we're simply freakish in that we don't experience these things with each other or if a lot of people upon becoming parents simply lose their shit. Sometimes I think that after becoming a parent, some people don't know how to "be" anymore. They get so caught up in the fact that they're someone's mom or dad that they completely lose their sense of self. If they're not talking or thinking about their child they seem to think they're a bad person or something. And yes, I've struggled with this myself because I was damn sure that as much as I love my son, he is not my entire world. To wrap up, thankfully this has not been my experience but I feel bad for those of you who now have strained friendships.

sara
11-15-2010, 07:46 PM
^ Yeah, I get that he's all into the parental lifestyle. So I ask how the offspring is. He seems to take that as a gateway to talk about nothing but the kid. This was literally a conversation we had:
"Hey dude, how's ninja training?"
"Good, I passed the test. I got the kid a little jiu jitsu outfit to look like mine. I have pictures and I'll send them. She's so awesome. Like, everything she does is so cool. It's amazing to watch."
"......yeah my cat can open cupboard doors. That's pretty awesome to watch."

I really do think that sometimes people lose themselves when they have kids. I'm giant cunt though and start talking about my cat like they do about their kids.

I do have one friend though who isn't one of those kinds of parents. We've had a lot of conversations about kids and she says "I love my kids.....most of the time. But the universe doesn't revolve around them and I know that they're not magical little people who are amazing all the time. They're just kids."

SparkleMotion
11-15-2010, 08:56 PM
^^I like your friend. :)

sara
11-15-2010, 10:27 PM
She's pretty awesome :). Out of all of my friends with kids, she's my favourite mom ;l. One of her sons wanted a pair of leggings or tights and a skirt to wear like the girl he plays with and she said that she'd get him a pair but warned him that they're really uncomfy and he might not like 'em once he put them on. But he did and he wore them around with a ballerina tutu. She said that gender-norming is such bullshit (which I completely agree with) and if her kid wants tights and the uncomfy-ness that goes with them, who is she to say no?

Savannah
11-16-2010, 05:00 PM
^ Your friend is awesome. Parent gendering really pisses me off and I see so much of it. My sister just found out she's having a boy and one of the first things she posted on FB was "Time to have a John Deere party!" Blegh.

other pete
11-16-2010, 08:35 PM
gender-norming is such bullshit

Do not get me started.



At Early Learning Centre, we do all we can to help mums help children grow into happy, self-confident people.

All our toys are designed to help children explore the boundaries of their imaginations and creativity , to make learning fun and help children be all they can be.

http://static.letsbuyit.com/filer/images/uk/products/original/54/63/early-learning-centre-let-s-pretend-washing-machine-pink-5463655.jpeg

SparkleMotion
11-16-2010, 10:27 PM
My 6 year old son told me he wants an Easy-Bake Oven but that "it's for girls." I told him it's not just for girls, it's just advertised that way. What's worse are the brands that are actually called "Girl Gourmet." I have a boy and he likes to make cupcakes, too! Fuck you and your little light bulb powered crap.
/hijack

Maeby
11-16-2010, 10:47 PM
^

Buy him the Easy Bake Oven. My uncle who was only 11 when I was born, would bake ******s and tiny cakes in his hand-me-down EB Oven during his high school lunch hour. Yum! He later became a chef and now owns his own restaurant. Who cares which gender the toy is supposed to be geared towards?

sara
11-16-2010, 10:49 PM
Do not get me started.


http://static.letsbuyit.com/filer/images/uk/products/original/54/63/early-learning-centre-let-s-pretend-washing-machine-pink-5463655.jpeg

Welp. I just threw up.



My 6 year old son told me he wants an Easy-Bake Oven but that "it's for girls." I told him it's not just for girls, it's just advertised that way. What's worse are the brands that are actually called "Girl Gourmet." I have a boy and he likes to make cupcakes, too! Fuck you and your little light bulb powered crap.
/hijack

But boys are only allowed the ovens that bake the creepy bug things! *eyeroll*
I know my friend with a new baby is going to be a great dad and I adore his wife. But I have a feeling that for every sport/ninja training school he puts her in, there'll be some kind of girly, gender norming thing she'll do.

fox in socks
11-16-2010, 11:32 PM
"Hey dude, how's ninja training?"
"Good, I passed the test. I got the kid a little jiu jitsu outfit to look like mine. I have pictures and I'll send them. She's so awesome. Like, everything she does is so cool. It's amazing to watch."
um right--thats what makes me insane. like obviously fast paced development is amazing to watch. i feel the same way about puppies. i just hate when its constant the Kid Show. E.g. with my one friend, every time i see her she has her kid put on the show like "hey jack! show foxy how you can walk! c'mon. c'mon!" and i spend 5 minutes watching the kid half assedly walk or whatever. honestly i dont care--walk or dont, youre not my kid. i mean he's fine and i dont mind interacting and such but again, not my kid. the same friend or "friend?" left me with her kid when he started to get fussy to get a cup of coffee and in 30 seconds the kid went into screaming meltdown in the middle of the coffee shop. i brought him outside as i take no disturbing the peace flack for a kid that isn't my own, but trust--it was one of the moments that reminded me how not child friendly i am.

as for gender norming--obviously bullshit. i have the hardest time buying toddler clothes for my niece since everything is all"pretty pink princess luvs to shop with mommy". fuck that. i usually try stuff with animals although apparently girls only like dogs and ponies and boys like lions and monkeys. who knew!!?!?

sara
11-17-2010, 01:29 AM
um right--thats what makes me insane. like obviously fast paced development is amazing to watch. i feel the same way about puppies. i just hate when its constant the Kid Show.

Exactly. Watching something grow quickly and learn is neat, but the fact that your kid can learn to walk is pretty much no different from a puppy or a kitten learning.

JayPeaches
11-17-2010, 02:19 PM
as for gender norming--obviously bullshit. i have the hardest time buying toddler clothes for my niece since everything is all"pretty pink princess luvs to shop with mommy". fuck that. i usually try stuff with animals although apparently girls only like dogs and ponies and boys like lions and monkeys. who knew!!?!?

Clothes for little girls are getting fucking ridiculous. When I was a kid, my Mom made a couple of cute girly outfits for me, but otherwise I wore stretchy pants/shorts or jeans and t-shirts. Like, plain solid colors. Boring. THEY'RE KIDS, not mini adults. One of my friends has the worst taste in kids' clothes (IMO). Her girls are always decked out in ruffles and bows and ribbons and sparkles and pink and purple and BARF. I can't take it. She was going to have their pictures made and I begged, BEGGED her to dress them in solid color cotton shirts and jeans. SHe did and they actually looked super-cute that way.

other pete
11-17-2010, 02:28 PM
How can this photographer even tell if her kids are in their rooms (http://www.studio107.com/artists/Yoon.htm)??
(unless she is Making A Point)

SparkleMotion
11-17-2010, 02:42 PM
You know those pants that have a word written across the ass? I saw one on a girl who could have been no more than nine. It said "Juicy." :eek:

sara
11-17-2010, 03:52 PM
^ EW.

Autumn
11-17-2010, 04:10 PM
You know those pants that have a word written across the ass? I saw one on a girl who could have been no more than nine. It said "Juicy." :eek:

It's a brand name, but it doesn't make it any less perverted. I'm pretty sure Juicy Couture is made for adults, not nine-year olds. I'm sure her mother had an excuse on the ready, because surely she realized the pants were slightly innappropriate and bound to raise eyebrows. Surely.

Chalk
11-17-2010, 04:12 PM
^^One would think so... I bet the mother thinks it's "cute", and that she has the same one in her size.

Frangipani
11-18-2010, 01:41 PM
I was out with some friends for the second time in 5 months and the last thing i wanted to do was talk about the baby, so much so that they were wondering if i even liked the baby! of course i do, but i didnt drop a buck fiddy on a babysitter to be able to go out and hang with the girls only to talk about the thing i've been trying to escape.

I also love how my family and husband thinks that now that i have a kid, anyone with a kid will be a great friend! Seriously, i've had to fight with my husband, telling him that I am NOT going to be best friends with his co workers wife now that she is pregnant. If he invites them over to the house one more time i will kill most likely a LOT of people.

tivoklr
11-20-2010, 02:34 AM
As someone who is wholly guilty of talking about my kids way too much, I have to say, in defense of parents of children everywhere that "having children is fucking nuts, not sometimes, but a lot, and mostly I find myself talking about them to vent, in what seems an 'aren't my insane bundles of joy just great'?" [updown]:)[updown]

As my girls are getting a little older, 7 and 4, it's improving a lot. The overwhelming nature of keeping them alive for the first 2 years, or until they can pretty much eat and use the toilet is as was said above, all consuming.

I'm sorry...I know how annoying it is, I can tell. This thread actually is inspiring me to be more me. Thanks!

fox in socks
01-16-2011, 01:51 PM
obviously anything thats a huge part of your life is going to be a huge part of your conversation subject matter. house, kids, spouse, job, whatever. its annoying across the board, though, when someone is totally consumed by any of those things and expects you to ride along. dont get me wrong, ive had friends who turn into suck when they have a new partner or something (which just like kids-all-the-time-talk gets totally tiring to listen to). as tivoklr said, as they get older, it can get better, but just like any relationship, you have to invest in it, you know, if you wants those friends to stick around for those first couple years. or if you want them to.

its funny, i overheard this conversation yesterday between two men, from an apparently seasoned parent to a soon-to-be parent giving some advice. most amusing was seasoned parent saying "we only see our friends without kids like once a year. friends with kids, we see more often". the soon-to-be said (sarcastically obs) "wow. youre really selling it to me." its an interesting cultural thing i think, especially since we live in a time when many have the choice and some choose not to have children. interesting indeed.

Stumbleine
01-22-2011, 10:37 PM
My siblings and I all have cats and we talk to each other about them in much the way you might talk about your kids. Sometimes I forget if we are joking or not.
Example conversation:

Sister-In-Law: "Ava is so adorable, but she's not very bright. Sometimes we put an upturned laundry basket over her and she can't figure out how to get out from underneath it so she just pushes it around like a little retarded turtle."
Me: "Aww, what an adorable dumbass! Boo is such a little terror. Just to annoy me, she stands at my bookshelf and watches me as she pulls each book off one by one for no goddamn reason. Cats!"

Does that count?

But really, I only have a couple of friends that have kids. One of them fell off the face of the earth, and the other is still one of my best friends in the world. Although she is busier, her personality never changed a bit, she's still just as kickass. So, I know it CAN work, but I also know that the vast majority of stories that I've heard are of people having kids and never being the same again. Or just never being seen again.

Medusa
01-24-2011, 03:13 AM
It's really just a question of knowing your audience and not overwhelming with info. I have plenty of FB friends with kids and they'll post pictures of their kids here and there, and maybe complain a bit about something coming up, but it's not EVERY SINGLE THING THEY SAY.

The friends who talk about nothing else but their children, the cute thing in their child's diaper, and the horrible thing someone said about their child get hidden in my feed just as quickly as the people who have absolutely nothing to say unless it involves football.

marci
01-24-2011, 04:35 AM
Two of my (who once were) bestest friends now have three children and I rarely speak with either of them.

When I would visit home, K was usually the only person that I went out of my way to meet up with. We always kept in touch, but that no longer is the case. I don't want to have to see her children. The last time she brought her kids over last straw for me, but I didn't want to say anything to offend her. When we made plans after that, I always tried to have us go out to dinner or to the movies, so she would not bring her kids along. I know she would be upset with me if I told her, so I've kept mum about it. The other thing that bugs me completely comes with the territory of being a mother and I understand, but always canceling plans due to one of the kids being sick has grown a bit annoying. We mainly just talk through Facebook these days, but it's infrequent. Every status update and photo posting (which tend to occur daily) have been about the kids. I'm happy that she's happy being a mom, but seriously? STFU!

I stopped speaking to my other friend mainly because she became incredibly selfish and never let me get a word in about myself. Once she became divorced, she moved out on her own and always had a new boyfriend to tell me about. Her apartment was always dirty and her children were terribly behaved. She yelled at them more than she spoke with me. The kids would eat lunch meat with their hands and then try to touch me. Ewwwww. It's been enough to keep me away!

Lily
01-27-2011, 01:47 PM
Hi,
New here.:) I have a few friends with children and naturally, I don't see them very often, because they are so occupied with them. They don't pressure us to have children like my husband's friends who have reproduced though. It can get get VERY annoying and they're really only asking us so that we can have 'playdates' together. :p

Maeve
02-04-2011, 10:47 AM
This is an interesting topic and I think that dynamics like this occur whenever there's a major change in someone's life.

For example: I'm not married.
I noticed that those among my friends who got married became more absent.
I don't have any kind of trouble or prejudice hanging out with married people but I can't help admitting that the largest part of my time is spent with others in a situation similar to mine on various aspects, even this: sometimes it's my fault, sometimes it's theirs, sometimes lives take different courses and no matter what you want, you have to adapt and the adaptation sometimes leads to the loss of some friends along the way.

Marriage is a big change, a baby is a bigger one.
I don't have many friends who have children, just two, but I can say that the separation began with their married life, way before their becoming parents.

fox in socks
02-04-2011, 05:43 PM
^this is definitely true. some people lose their identify to kids, some to marriage.

Lágnætti
02-07-2011, 12:15 PM
Maeve, I agree. I've parted company with friends who married and suddenly became offensively couple-centric. You know, the type who suddenly find it problematic to invite single people to their parties, or only do so to try and heavy-handedly matchmake them with other people whose singleness offends them. Then there's when you find every single time you get together you're just used an a sounding board for their complaints about their other half. It's insulting and even worse, boring as hell.

JayPeaches
02-07-2011, 02:55 PM
Generally speaking, I think there are just some people whose entire identity is tied to another person, be it their child or their mate. I think it's important for anyone in a healthy relationship to have couples to friends they can hang out with together, but I also think it's important for each person to have individual friends. Everyone needs their own identity, "me time," and friendships that aren't tied to the relationship they're in.

One of my closest friends growing up pretty much fell of the face of the earth once she got a boyfriend, and only ever hung out with me when he dumped her. Then once she found another boyfriend, she disappeared again. It was frustrating...it's like I only got to see her when she was heartbroken and needed me to keep her occupied.

secretsekertary
02-07-2011, 09:43 PM
man, that's a bummer. my group of friends is all mixed in with married couples, dating couples, singles, those with children and those without. And while the initial shock of having children has been a bit of a barrier, we always seem to be able to work around it - by having movie night at the home of the new parents, for example. We have "baby momma" nights and "baby daddy nights" so the gals can all hang out together and the men have to watch the kids, or the guys go out and the ladies watch the babies.

I have heard this kind of trepidation from a handful of my friends outside of this core group, who have expressed a concern that I will follow the suit of some of their other friends, who kind of dropped off the planet after getting married. And I wonder if maybe those couples got married like, really soon into their relationship? Or what? Is getting married really all that different of a life change than, say, living with someone for five years? Because I'm about to get married but we've already been together for this long, and living together, so I don't really anticipate a sudden change in my social behavior.

Kids, if and when that happens, is a completely different story. Major life change, and I will probably curtail a lot of social stuff, at least for a few years.

ontheindianside
02-08-2011, 11:48 AM
Maeve, I agree. I've parted company with friends who married and suddenly became offensively couple-centric. You know, the type who suddenly find it problematic to invite single people to their parties, or only do so to try and heavy-handedly matchmake them with other people whose singleness offends them. Then there's when you find every single time you get together you're just used an a sounding board for their complaints about their other half. It's insulting and even worse, boring as hell.

I call those people "uber-adults" or "uber-marrieds." Many of my friends in my hometown are afflicted by the condition, whether they're married or not (though most of them are married). I wouldn't go so far as to say that they aggressively matchmake (actually, they almost resist it - perhaps out of self-absorption), but they do put a major emphasis on their "serious couple" status; they complain about each other, even when both of them are in the conversation; and they relish taking on "adult responsibilities," which they like to pretend non-marrieds don't have to deal with. Oh, and dinner parties, of course.

I always feel like, because I didn't become a lawyer/accountant/nurse/teacher, stay in my hometown, and/or marry someone I've known since high school but did decide to get the fuck out and live and work in several different places, they think I live in some kind of fantasy world where nothing actually matters. (Almost like when I lived in a dorm my first year of college - the sorority girls I with whom I involuntarily shared space treated me like some kind of novelty because I was not, you know, a sorority girl and would say things like, "Oh my god, isn't she funny?" when I voiced my normal opinions and stuff. Now I feel like the uber-adults/marrieds treat us singletons like novelties in that same sort of condescending way.) Sometimes I think they have to act a little superior to reassure themselves that they didn't make the wrong decision, but other times I think they're just selfish, oblivious, and rude. I mean, I do have almost the exact same responsibilities (luckily none of my good friends have children yet) they have and personally feel that mine can be harder to deal with, since I don't have a second income, and there aren't many people around who can or will watch my cats if I have to travel for work or help me carry this heavy thing or with whom to cuddle up when I'm sad, stressed, etc. Seriously, a friend once told me that she was able to deal with stress better now that she's had more "real world experience"! I wanted to punch her in the fucking face. It's like, "Does changing your whole life plan after the first didn't work out, getting laid off in two different states in less than two years, and living/working in three different cities where you don't know anyone not count as 'real world experience' in the same way as does your easy transition from college to law school to law practice to marriage to the only person in the world who'd put up with you?"

It makes it difficult to hang out with them because I always feel kind of like the odd man out, even though they say that's not the case. They don't try to have conversations about things to which everyone can relate, and if you're having a hard time, instead of empathizing and listening, they try to tell you what to do because, obviously, they have all the answers. They're MARRIED! But they also try to deny what they're doing and how they're acting with this sort of condescending "That's in your head" (implication: your jealous of my boring and tedious lifestyle) thing.

I almost wish they would set me up! At least then it would be easier to explain why it's awkward to be around them too much.

Maeve
02-10-2011, 12:51 PM
^ Fortunately my friends, either married or yet parents, don't act that way. Our "departure" is more related to real changes (home address, daily duties, different hours) and the inclusion of the "other"'s circle of friends. These things subtract from the relationship, either if you want it or not, and create a sort of space between me and them that's difficult, sometimes, to bypass.

And, by the way, I don't know if it's only my experience or if others can say it but I think that marital and parental statuses really change people and the perspectives they have on their own needs and what "should" be others' needs.
In a way is a real door to the adulthood world and whatever it's the profession and life a single non parent person has, I think that there's always that sort of freedom and independency that links her/him to a "younger" state of mind. Bearing responsibilities for others other than oneself is always different than being alone.
For example I have the chance to do almost whatever I feel to do in my spare time: write, watching movies, hangin' out with friends whenever I like without having to depend on anybody's schedule other than mine, even choose to simply start the PC and decide to waste time on a computer game.
I think that this kind of freedom and independence is impossible to keep when you begin sharing your life with another person. Marrying (and I don't mean marrying in a strict way, even deciding to live with your partner) and having babies imply conscious and willfull choices that a single person doesn't have to make.

ontheindianside
02-12-2011, 02:25 PM
And, by the way, I don't know if it's only my experience or if others can say it but I think that marital and parental statuses really change people and the perspectives they have on their own needs and what "should" be others' needs.
In a way is a real door to the adulthood world and whatever it's the profession and life a single non parent person has, I think that there's always that sort of freedom and independency that links her/him to a "younger" state of mind. Bearing responsibilities for others other than oneself is always different than being alone.
For example I have the chance to do almost whatever I feel to do in my spare time: write, watching movies, hangin' out with friends whenever I like without having to depend on anybody's schedule other than mine, even choose to simply start the PC and decide to waste time on a computer game.

I think that this kind of freedom and independence is impossible to keep when you begin sharing your life with another person. Marrying (and I don't mean marrying in a strict way, even deciding to live with your partner) and having babies imply conscious and willfull choices that a single person doesn't have to make.

I see what you're saying and agree that when people have children, they do have burdens that childless or childfree people don't have. But people who are just married or living together? I don't know. I mean, they can also choose to waste time on video games or go shopping with no repercussions (unless they've put themselves in a relationship that creates them). Especially young married people. Let's take my sister, who is married and exactly my age, for example. Her day differs from mine in only one significant way: when she comes home from work, her husband is there (or will be soon). She's not required to have dinner on the table for him or anything, and neither is he. They're just two people who live together and are in a relationship. I've never been married or lived with a partner, so perhaps there's something I'm missing, but I don't see it.

Sometimes I think it might be easier, practically speaking, to be married. If I have to go out of town, I have to find someone to watch my cats (if I were married, my partner would do it, and I wouldn't have to take him/her out to dinner or something for feeding the animals). If I forget to get an important thing at the store on the way home, I have to go back and get it (can't call my husband and say, "Hey, can you pick up some dish soap on your way home?"). I have to pay my own rent and bills without another person's help (though, admittedly, I only pay for shelter, hot water, lights, etc. for one person, not two - but I also don't have two incomes). I'm the only person who can clean the house, go to the grocery store, do the laundry and all that other annoying shit that takes up half my weekend. Married people almost have more free time because they can split that shit up! Sure, I can decide to go out after work without having to call someone and tell them where I'll be, but unless you're breaking plans or have a controlling asshole for a partner, then how hard is it to call your partner and say, "Hey, I'm going out with the coworkers"?

I understand babies. With babies, yes, you are undoubtedly responsible for another person's well-being. But, unless I've misunderstood marriage all these years, marriage partners have only a nominal and very minimal responsibility to one another when it comes to basic functions like feeding, clothing, and cleaning up after the other. I understand that sometimes emotional responsibilities (such as, "No, sorry, my partner is going through a really tough time, and I think she'd appreciate it if I just came home after work" or . . . seriously, I can't think of another; either I'm really emotionally immature or I'm totally right!) keep married/seriously partnered people from doing whatever they want, but having a live-in partner is not like having a baby. It's like living with another adult.

But, back to friends with kids, have you guys seen those awful Facebook baby calendar things? I was paging through updates on my phone last night and saw one "friend"'s; oh, it was gross. Not like, "Emily is having morning sickness; it looks like muffins!" but more like, "The baby is starting to learn noises she'll hear after she's born: Emily's voice, the vacuum cleaner, and the dog's bark!" Ugh. I don't care. Actually, I'm off to figure out how to hide that thing. Or maybe that person.

Lágnætti
02-12-2011, 03:51 PM
^Also, and ovbiously this is more the women, although I've known men do it too when marrying 'up' financially - it's incredibly annoying when they play the 'more responsible/adult then thou' game when they're .. um, basically obviously living off their husband's salary, or would never be able to afford the mortgage/trappings of so-called adulthood they indulge in without it. Or they just don't work at all, in which case ... LOL, shut it. Having a wealthy partner who pays your bills doesn't make you more responsible than a bloody child, no matter how many babies you throw into the equation.

The worst experience I've had with this was a friend of 11 years, weathered through thick and thin, who over a year of engagement and upon marriage to a man much older than herself became more and more unpleasant and contemptuous to me, culminating in an excrutiating dinner post-marriage where she made such patronising, nasty remarks to me that I immediately cut her and her pompous twat of a daddy figure out of my life straight afterwards.

Maeve
02-13-2011, 01:03 AM
I guess that also in marriage (or living with a partner) every person acts differently. Generalizations are always wrong for sure but in my experience a friend's marriage was never a changeless or almost changeless process.
There are various degrees of that obviously and if two people are able to keep their lives almost as they were before is a good thing... and I say it because I'm one of those people so used to her independecy that if I found a partner so tlerant about it I would really happy even to live with him :p


About facebook... I don't have a FB account and this thing adds to the many reasons why I'll never want one :D

ontheindianside
02-14-2011, 11:27 AM
^I agree that people often do change when they get married. I just don't get why!

fox in socks
08-20-2011, 01:52 PM
Updating! The person i was referring to at the OP has laid it on hard core. Im starting (im a bit slow) to get that she was manipulative prior to babyhaving, but babyhaving made it more obvious. example/ranting:

We were supposed to get together a few weeks ago. Day before the date i get a voicemail "cant meet, husband has an emergency meeting, no sitter." Okay, fair enough. that happens.

So we plan another day, dinner after i get out of work. I get a voice mail the day of whilst working, so I hear it as I'm walking out the door to meet this girl, "Hi. The kids are sick. Can we delay our meeting so i can help husband put the kids to bed?". Really? He cant put his kids to bed by himself because theyre sick??Wwhat? Anyway, I phone her to find out what "delay" means. Apparently its like 2 hrs AFTER im calling her, you know whilst walking out of work to meet her. Ugh, no...i dont want to hang around in the city doing fuck all until the kids are to bed. Her solution? Come over and wait whilst theyre putting the kids to bed."We have beer". How could I resist that offer!?!.....So her other suggestion "lets make plans another day in the evening after kiddos to bed". Great. Sensible.

So that day comes and I get a call about 3 hrs before we're supposed to meet "Hi. Have to cancel. my moms in town and...." seriously y'all i stopped listening. Her next suggestion was "since moms here, we might have a sitter, so ill call you today or tomorrow and we can get together!"

And thats the last ive heard. I know im whining, but really, its about the manipulation aspect. Like because she has children everyone in the world should be sitting and waiting for her to be available for life. i mean she HAS CHILDREN! I really can't stand when people are disrespectful of others' time......Long rant, but it pisses me off and thats what the internet is for.

Honestly, i think kids or no kids, if you value whatever friendships/relationships, you'll both make them work. My stance is the same, im not friends with your kids, im friends with you. I dont mind a wee bit of kid talk, i mean theyre a major part of your life, but if life cannot exist without putting yourself on a parental pedestal, its hardly worth it.

Lágnætti
08-20-2011, 02:13 PM
Yeah, I'd give it up with someone who pulls that shit unapologetically and constantly. It's kind of a puffed-up princess type of thing, married, single, childed or not. What you said in your original post about not carving out chunks of personal time for people who you KNOW will likely find an excuse to 'forget' or cancel holds true. Note to people who pull this; it sends a pretty clear message that you don't respect your friend's time or indeed, your friend.

fox in socks
08-20-2011, 04:01 PM
Agreed. And to confirm your point, this particular person was a princess pants prior to kiddos, but for some odd reason, I put up with her shit then and earned a legacy of bullshit. Lesson learned.

It does amaze me the heavy mom-entitlement that exists though. These are the same people who write outraged comments to on-line articles about bratty kids claiming "kids are people too", "you can't control them all the time" and other such shoulder-shrugging "it's out of my control" type comments, usually by user names such as "katysmum66" and "mommy2twins".

JayPeaches
08-20-2011, 05:02 PM
Denali, you're lucky she doesn't just bring the brats with her, which is what one of my friends does (I've probably already mentioned it in this thread). She's even brought her kid to a fucking art show in a BAR one night! I was like, WTF?!

You're right though, about how some people will use kids as a way to manipulate the situation so that you basically have to cater 100% to them. I'd never really thought about it that way, but that's exactly what it is. And of course because you don't have kids, you're totes available ALL THE TIME. She can change plans with you and you'll still be available because you don't have kids! Except not.

SparkleMotion
08-20-2011, 05:09 PM
Honestly, i think kids or no kids, if you value whatever friendships/relationships, you'll both make them work. My stance is the same, im not friends with your kids, im friends with you. I dont mind a wee bit of kid talk, i mean theyre a major part of your life, but if life cannot exist without putting yourself on a parental pedestal, its hardly worth it.

I love you, foxy! Yes, stuff comes up when you have kids. You obviously understand that. But when your friend doesn't even seem to wat to have a life outside her children you have to re-evaluate. While I was pretty baby-consumed the first 6 months of my son's life, it became apparent to me very quickly that if I didn't have a life outside of that I would kill myself. Then again, my friends are my family and spending quality time with them is very important to me. It sounds like your friend has lost sight of that and I'm sorry.

Mackerel
08-22-2011, 04:29 PM
What you said in your original post about not carving out chunks of personal time for people who you KNOW will likely find an excuse to 'forget' or cancel holds true. Note to people who pull this; it sends a pretty clear message that you don't respect your friend's time or indeed, your friend.

requoted for TRUTH. imo the kids thing probably exacerbates a problem that was already present before in a less extreme form. I have a good friend who's a single parent to a little boy, and she is always up for things when she says she is. it's NOT THAT HARD. anybody who won't make the effort is a complete waste of your time.

fox in socks
08-24-2011, 12:44 AM
indeed. it's interesting what life events exacerbate marginally hidden personality flaws. clearly another reason why i dont need to procreate :)

eednic
11-15-2011, 11:51 PM
Well...today I found out my friend/co-worker is pregnant. I had a suspicion for awhile now, but she is incredibly tiny and I'm just not the type of person that asks "OMG ARE YOU PREGNANT?!?!" any time someone hasn't taken a dump for a few days, nah mean?

I feel weird about it all though. Maybe it's because I'm starting to feel left behind to a certain extent...with that innate understanding that having children may very well not be something I will ever want (I've been undecided leaning towards DO NOT WANT for many years now and won't even consider the idea with any seriousness unless I'm married). My friend is married and even up until a few months ago, she talked very pointedly about her desire to never have children. Maybe that's why I feel weird--because she felt the way I do. Is it because I will basically be the only female in my office of child-bearing age without children? We are a small office of 10 women and 1 man. There is only one younger woman that does not have children, but no one ever bothers her about it because she's so young, right?

Anyways. I feel like a selfish bitch for even thinking this way...but I do wonder what will happen to our friendship and whether or not it's even okay now to have conversations about not wanting children/questioning it. Bah. I just feel WEIRD and left out/behind.

fox in socks
11-19-2011, 07:14 PM
i dont know--ive felt this way too, like "oh shit, shes pregnant. bye bye friendship". its not iron clad, but seems to happen more often than not. im sitting next to some girls in the airport talking about the same thing, like "other people with kids just seem to have more understanding for those of us with kids". i agree with the sentiment that its harder to be child-free and friends with people with younger kids (who dominate their parents' lives with their needs inherent with youth) vs. older kids.

i think the worst is when you find out what kind of a dickhead parent, or general dickhead, some people can become after having kids. some people are great-but some people are just "omg my life is so hard, youre so lucky you dont have any responsibility" assholes, some people just disappear, etc.

its funny, whenever i see a cute kid or a cute kid moment, i am almost immediately countered by some hideous kid doing something hideous like screaming, being needy, being loud, getting up in my grill, whatever. its just not in my dna.

fox in socks
03-16-2013, 01:34 PM
i dont know--ive felt this way too, like "oh shit, shes pregnant. bye bye friendship". its not iron clad, but seems to happen more often than not. boost! this is so spot on you guise. one of my favorite people was pregnant (now childed) last year and i had already started the hyperbolic grieving process for our friendship. well played on my part, because she is now fully consumed (quitting work and everything) with the all consuming aspect of newborn/infant-world.

given that potential loss of friendship, or what eednic said about "left behind", i can see why some people who might be fence-sitters have kids, simply to be part of the crowd. i mean, it's not just in procreating that social peer-pressure has an influence right? it's interesting though---my peer group has changed a bit. they're either younger--unmarried, unchilded or older (usually without kids or with older kids). my age cohort is limited!

JayPeaches
03-16-2013, 01:46 PM
Of all the friends that I've had who ended up parents, only two of them have not dropped off the face of the earth. They did at first (infants are a bitch, apparently), but once they adjusted and figured out how to be people-not-just-parents again, they were fine. I have noticed that it depends a lot on whether or not they have family in town - some people just do NOT trust anyone but family to watch their kids, so if there's no family they're less likely to get babysitters and whatnot. That never stopped my parents! If they couldn't find a sitter they just brought the party to their house and told me to stay in my room. ;l

fox in socks
03-16-2013, 07:37 PM
indeed i must say, it does seem to depend a wee bit on the quality of the relationship BEFORE ch ch ch changes. semi-hilariously, i have a friend with kid who goes out more than i could ever fathom (which is ever). she have me some shit recently about "never going out". granted, we never "went out" before she had her kid, or ever in our friendship, but i find it amusing. kids or no kids, staying in my house and watching SVU reruns>>>>any bar scene.

Ryan
03-17-2013, 01:16 AM
staying in my house and watching SVU reruns>>>>any bar scene.

Twinsies! I decided to put my $9 Netflix streaming to good use and I've been watching SVU for about two weeks now. I've knocked out 2 1/2 seasons that I only caught bits of on TV.

Anyway, I'm getting to the age now where all my friends are having kids. It's only been an issue with a few of them. I actually don't mind kids unless they're bratty little shits, so I don't mind popping by a friend's house and chatting/having dinner and visiting with the kid there. I understand that it's a huge life change and a huge responsibility. One of my very best friends had a baby and it took her maybe 8 - 10 months to get to a point where she was comfortable going out and leaving him with someone. I'd stop by a few times a week and just hang out and play with the baby because I knew she was probably going stir crazy in the house. Once the baby got a bit older, she was very much herself.

A couple of my friends lost their identities completely. They became a shell. They only live to serve the baby and the husband. Their Facebooks are only pictures of the kid, and the kid's artwork, and the kid's cutesy clothes with sayings like "Momma's #1 Man!" Every update is about how the kid's napping, the kid's crying, all the updated stats from the kid's latest doctor appointment to let everyone know their exact weight and height... on and on. I notice that these same parents suddenly become uber-religious and talk about their sweet gift from god and all that nonsense, too. So your marriage was blessed with functioning balls and ovaries. Congratulations! You're special just like nearly every other thing on this planet.

fullofwish
03-17-2013, 01:30 AM
I feel a little bit lucky that most of my friends with kids have not let it take over their identity. They do still talk about their kids more than I'm interested in, and they do post a lot of cute pics on facebook, but they are also more than happy to leave their kids with someone to come out to a party/bar. And when shit goes on in my adult life, they can talk about it without comparing it to their life, or using it as a segue into a story about the kids. I'd say we have a good balance of family-friendly get togethers (at the park or at home during the day) and adults-only parties and drinks in the evening that keeps everyone happy.

Robin Sparkles
03-17-2013, 01:44 AM
Twinsies! I decided to put my $9 Netflix streaming to good use and I've been watching SVU for about two weeks now. I've knocked out 2 1/2 seasons that I only caught bits of on TV.


After 2.5 years, I have FINALLY finished watching all of the streaming episodes of SVU. I always watch TV in bed before I fall asleep, and 2.5 years ago I decided I wanted to watch all of the SVU in order. Of course I've seen every episode a dozen times in reruns. My poor fiance has had to put up with this - half the time I fall asleep during the episode and start it over the next night. I am patiently waiting for season 13 to stream!

JayPeaches
03-17-2013, 02:11 AM
I'm pretty sure that the SVU intro music triggers PTSD in T, thanks to years of SVU marathons I forced on him.

Lágnætti
03-17-2013, 02:07 PM
People change and most friendships reach their natural end, whatever sentimental Hollywood movies tell you. Most friendships are based on simple commonality and proximity and when you don't have any or when someone does a 180 on behavior and attitudes that previously you had in common then the friendship has usually reached its end point. There's little point in trying to cling to someone who is simply not the same person they were - as you are likely not the same person you were - five, ten, fifteen or twenty years ago. There are people I was firm friends with in my teens/early twenties who turned into people I just, well, despised. So, cut ties and bye bye. Move on, make new friends. New interests often bring a new set of friends. It's far more productive than spending time or mental energy on people who you're never going to get along with again in any real sense.

As for the poster upthread who mentioned wondering whether to have kids because she fears 'getting left behind' a bunch of silly office hens - this notion just frustrates and depresses me. The point of life - what is it to you? Keeping up with the Joneses or random bloody co-workers through mimicking their every move, sticking to some generic lifescript or actually figuring out what YOU want out of the short time you have on this planet and pursuing that? You won't ever make yourself happy or fulfilled by consulting a list of arbitrary 'milestones' or trying to ape some notion of achievement based on some marketing campaign, trust me. The idea that people will get married (seen this a hundred times) or actually produce a new life all out of some utterly superficial need to compete with whichever set of random people they're currently surrounded me is incredible to me. You want to build a cage for yourself and end up trapped and miserable because 'everyone else' apparently does it? Think that way.

fox in socks
03-17-2013, 03:04 PM
^fabulous point. i had breakfast today with another childed friend who talked kiddo about 5 minutes, then redirected to HER goals/plans, her thoughts on life, etc. etc. A brilliant conversation with someone is not identified or consumed by one thing. I also appreciate her never being a bingoing mommy-know-it-all telling me "I used to think like you, but then I had BAYBEE and realize that life is now worth living" or some shit.

Life really is what you make it, and it seems to be nothing but miserable when you're on autopilot for the lifescript vs. figuring out what you want independent of the "typical" path. sure, it's probably harder in the sense that you have to make your own way vs. have it written out for you, but isn't that part of the beauty?

JayPeaches
03-17-2013, 05:45 PM
People change and most friendships reach their natural end, whatever sentimental Hollywood movies tell you. Most friendships are based on simple commonality and proximity and when you don't have any or when someone does a 180 on behavior and attitudes that previously you had in common then the friendship has usually reached its end point. There's little point in trying to cling to someone who is simply not the same person they were - as you are likely not the same person you were - five, ten, fifteen or twenty years ago.

Damn, this is so hard for me though and I don't even know why. I guess it's because I'm a person of few friends, and it takes me a long time to trust someone enough to let them in on the feelings and secrets I have. Not that I feel compelled to share them, but to me the sharing of those things is what forms a close bond and it's hard for me to let go of that. I feel like I have to start all over with a new person. Which is fine I suppose, assuming I've found a new person. My best friend had kids almost 8 years ago, and oddly enough, the kids aren't what eventually led to the friendship's end...it was her divorce and renewed focus on running, going out, and dating. Great for her, not at all fun for me because I have zero interest in any of those things. *sigh*

Lágnætti
03-17-2013, 06:36 PM
^I know I've simply had to adjust my expectations of people over the years. I was very much like you're describing when I was a young thing and basically things heading south unexpectedly on a couple of occasions - one very long and I thought deep friendship dissolving into sour nothingness in particular - simply shocked me into change and honestly, in the long term it wasn't a bad thing at all, to learn not to put all your eggs in one basket with people.


Life really is what you make it, and it seems to be nothing but miserable when you're on autopilot for the lifescript vs. figuring out what you want independent of the "typical" path. sure, it's probably harder in the sense that you have to make your own way vs. have it written out for you, but isn't that part of the beauty?

Definitely. I admit I've had some bleak times when I felt totally on the outs and isolated as hell being simply who I am. But I'm likely hard-wired to be the way I am and compromise simply isn't an option for me. I know if I forced myself into a lifescript scenario it'd result in me just up and leaving town in the middle of the night or simply some kind of process of attrition leading to breakdown. Know thyself is the great maxim, I suppose. You do come out the other side of the bad periods stronger and more certain of yourself. I'm better now than I was in my mid-thirties, for example. Have a great new circle of friends with similar interests and priorities after a long time in the wilderness doing my own thing almost defiantly. Definitely worth waiting for. I say just keep on keeping on, doing your own things, pursuing your course and in the final analysis, you'll win. Integrity is for me one of the most important and admirable traits in a person.

Stone
03-17-2013, 08:26 PM
People change and most friendships reach their natural end, whatever sentimental Hollywood movies tell you. Most friendships are based on simple commonality and proximity and when you don't have any or when someone does a 180 on behavior and attitudes that previously you had in common then the friendship has usually reached its end point. There's little point in trying to cling to someone who is simply not the same person they were - as you are likely not the same person you were - five, ten, fifteen or twenty years ago.

I'm 28 and this has never been more evident than now. I used to have a bunch of friends who eventually became "frenemies" as it turned out that, as time passed by, we had less and less in common. By the time I was 24 or so, I gave up gay-scene-ish night life almost completely. It just didn't appeal to me anymore and thought there was nothing in it for me at that point. But I had to let go of a lot of (older) friends who never really outgrew that stage of their life, and would look down on me for not getting into it anymore. And that's just one example - our general idea of pursuit of happiness couldn't have been more different. It may hurt at the beginning, but it's best to part ways wisely when it's necessary in the long run.

Dan
03-18-2013, 02:13 PM
I don't know, I'm 31 and my friends now are largely the same friends I had in high school and even before that. Sure, the gang has grown (it's funny when we try to get a table for 20 people); we're sort of like a large, very dysfunctional family. We fight often, there's always drama, gossip, odd moments etc. Deciding where to go on a Saturday night is a challenging process. Not everyone is best friends with everyone by any means, and sometimes it's very frustrating. But ultimately, having spent our formative years together makes a difference. We've all met zillions of people in the meantime, but that type of friendship that we have, that closeness seems very hard to achieve with new people at this point. And when it's good, it's really good.

Luckily, thus far only more peripheral ones have bred, and nobody dares to bore the majority with obnoxious baby talk. There are still plenty of single people in the gang, unmarried couples, gays etc. Most people who are the same age as we are seem to be enjoying the married, family life and it's not really the case with us, so in a way maybe this keeps us together too. We are, of course, supportive of the ones who are parents or in the process of becoming parents, but there aren't really any "babby took a poo" discussions. And, oddly enough, the parents in our gang can't stand those kinds of people either.

As for friendships taking the back seat after having a child, I think that for about a year or so, it's to be expected. They're simply really busy, it's nothing personal. Then again, here you can legally take up to two years of paid maternal leave without having to worry about losing your job, and becoming a permanent stay at home parent isn't really part of the culture. Once the early frenzy dies down, people seem to return back to their old selves up to a point; sure, with those who weren't really fun before breeding, that's not an improvment.

Bryan Alan
04-16-2013, 03:17 PM
So, I'm hosting a party for the Kentucky Derby on May 4th. We've done it a few years in a row. We make a lot of southern food, and drink mint juleps, encourage people to wear big hats, etc etc. It's always been a blast.

Now a few of my friends have babies. Three couples actually, all have one child under three, six months being the youngest. I also have a lot of people on the guest list that are far from caring for another human being besides themselves and are just coming to get shit-faced at 2 in the afternoon.

I'm a little nervous as to how these people are going to mix. I made it clear on the invite that all significant others and children were welcome because of course I would never want to not include someone just because they have kids. Also, I don't mind kids. I know there are people coming though that would be like "what the fuck is that baby doing at your party?"

So yeah, I feel like the parents/babies will all be huddled in a corner avoiding the drunks throwing their derby hats off the balcony. Plus, the parents probably won't drink much because they have their kids, and then everyone else will be drinking too much.

I think I hate hosting parties to begin with. Ok, vent over.

Kala
06-04-2013, 08:36 PM
So my relatively new neighbors have a kid. Since the weather has been nice of late I've seen her outside playing and after interacting with her a bit I must say she is probably the most loquacious and amusing eight year old child I have ever met. Yesterday after asking her mom if it was OK, I was invited to attend her birthday party this coming Saturday afternoon. The whole thing threw me off guard and so I said, eh, "yes." My former neighbor sold his home to his brother, so my old neighbors will be there with their kid. I really don't know any of these people that well so WHAT THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT. I designed a special birthday card for her from my photography site and will enclose a gift card for Toys R Us. Hopefully the cake & ice cream will be good and I will only have to make a brief appearance!

NUHN
06-04-2013, 10:54 PM
Ugh, it could easily turn into a Child Care Pow Wow with you just sitting there with nothing to say, yeah.

I too would make a hasty exit and just make standard weather/local news/times-sure-are-different-from-when-we-were-kids chitchat.

It's sweet of you to put in the effort that you are though.

Kala
06-04-2013, 11:07 PM
Ugh, it could easily turn into a Child Care Pow Wow with you just sitting there with nothing to say, yeah.

I too would make a hasty exit and just make standard weather/local news/times-sure-are-different-from-when-we-were-kids chitchat.

It's sweet of you to put in the effort that you are though.

Well I have already stepped up and told her not to interrupt adults while they are talking. I also told her she couldn't climb the tree in the front yard and that put an end to that (for the time being.) When she's wound up, the kid fires with all cylinders, so I'll be keeping an eye on her and have no problem letting her know if she needs to take it down a notch when she starts acting up too much. And also, I want to meet her pet guinea pig. ;l Oh, and she calls me "Miss Kala"!

Robin Sparkles
06-05-2013, 02:14 PM
People around me are having babies like crazy. My close friend has a 7-week-old and I am in absolute love with him. People are shocked when they ask me when we will start having kids (we just got married two weeks ago) and I reply that I don't want children. Just because I love my friends' kids to pieces does not translate to me wanting my own!

Mori
06-05-2013, 04:51 PM
I hate when people equate being fond of kids as wanting kids of your own. It's easy to fawn over kids if you don't have to take care of them! I help take care of my nephew and people compliment on how good I do, and ask "Well, I thought you never wanted kids?". Well, I don't. He's not mine and I'm sort of forced into this situation so of course I'm going to be responsible for him, but that doesn't mean I want to squeeze one out for myself.

SweetPea
06-05-2013, 05:23 PM
I hate when people equate being fond of kids as wanting kids of your own. It's easy to fawn over kids if you don't have to take care of them! I help take care of my nephew and people compliment on how good I do, and ask "Well, I thought you never wanted kids?". Well, I don't. He's not mine and I'm sort of forced into this situation so of course I'm going to be responsible for him, but that doesn't mean I want to squeeze one out for myself.

THANK YOU. I LOVE my nieces, but I don't want any kids of my own. My sister-in-law doesn't seem to grasp this. But she's an idiot. ;)

Robin Sparkles
06-05-2013, 05:54 PM
Yep. I have two nieces and two nephews, as well as a dozen kids/babies in my close circle of friends. I adore each and every one of them, and I'm good with them. I even miss them if I haven't seen them in awhile. But I don't have to wipe their asses or deal with their tantrums - so I get the best of both worlds!

Mori
06-06-2013, 04:02 AM
Plus, being a genderqueer aromantic doesn't help the situation out either. I get the "Well, maybe if you look *more feminine* you'd get a boyfriend, marry and want kids". Wow, thanks for being an insensitive jackass! Where's that Bingo card at?

Tulip In A Cup
06-06-2013, 03:35 PM
A couple of my friends lost their identities completely. They became a shell. They only live to serve the baby and the husband. Their Facebooks are only pictures of the kid, and the kid's artwork, and the kid's cutesy clothes with sayings like "Momma's #1 Man!" Every update is about how the kid's napping, the kid's crying, all the updated stats from the kid's latest doctor appointment to let everyone know their exact weight and height... on and on. I notice that these same parents suddenly become uber-religious and talk about their sweet gift from god and all that nonsense, too. So your marriage was blessed with functioning balls and ovaries. Congratulations! You're special just like nearly every other thing on this planet.

That is my sister almost to a T except for the religious aspect. We were super close before she had her baby a year ago but now everything in her life is devoted and an excuse because of the baby. Her FB profile pic and cover photo is the picture of her son and my page is devoted to a bunch of pics of myself. LOL She and her husband started a Utube channel of videos of her kid. Whenever we get in an argument that has nothing to do with kids, she ALWAYS throws it in my face that I am a bitch and selfish because I don't want kids. Like recently I asked her if she could when she had the money, add some money to our mentally ill brothers pre-paid phone. He needed minutes because if he runs out,he just disappears and we don't know how to find him. So I put $30 on my credit card even though I didn't want to and don't really want to be adding to my debt, I asked her if she could add $5 or $10 sometime later in the month and she just complained about how she doesn't have any money and her kid is all that she can worry about right now. Even though I reminded her that I was able to help our brother out when I am working with one income and do not have much extra cash.

I just hate how smug it makes people and this attitude of superiority just because I have made the decision to not have kids. When they can really just fuck off!

fox in socks
06-06-2013, 09:55 PM
I just hate how smug it makes people and this attitude of superiority just because I have made the decision to not have kids. When they can really just fuck off!my sister in law has become a bit of a douche since having her kids as well. she plays the "when ____has kids they'll understand" card as if giving birth instantly makes you a whole person or summat. for instance, she was bitching about the cousin who is a bit irresponsible and absent minded (and 23) not phoning his mum when he travels. luckily she knows whats what stating "well, when he has kids he'll know what it's like to worry about someone and be sure to call". this said in front of the boy and i, who dont have kids, who actually ARE responsible and let people know of our plans and shit. even sans kids. amazing how we figured it out.

Kala
06-07-2013, 12:45 AM
this said in front of the boy and i, who don't have kids

to which i hope you responded with something like:


who [we] actually ARE responsible and let people know of our plans and shit. even sans kids. amazing how we figured it out.

who knows. maybe that will shut her up for a while. at the very least, you can get it off your chest because that's just downright insensitive and inappropriate on her part.

fox in socks
06-07-2013, 06:20 PM
shes increasingly more cunty and better-than-thou so, yeah.

i am always amazed at the people who say that insensitive shit. shit they probably dreamed up playing one-up sanctimommy on the playground.

e.g. one of my co-workers all knowingly told me that one of our other co-workers is probably so mental because, wait for it, she never had kids. because duh you guys, not only does giving birth make you "adult" and "responsible" but it also cures an unstable personality. i mean, giving birth is the elixir of perfection!

Lágnætti
06-07-2013, 07:45 PM
Given that at least two mental health issues are a direct result of pregnancy hormones fucking your brain up, it's probably better they keep their ideas on mental health in regard to childlessness to themselves. After all, no such thing as post-nothavingkids depression / post-thankfuckididn'tprocreate psychosis in the diagnostic medical journals, is there?

fox in socks
06-07-2013, 10:09 PM
not a drop of course. unless those are outliers. as is the 25 years into it post-i gave 25 years to my kids now theyre out of the house, living in france and could give 2 fucks about me.

otherwise, mommyhood makes you PERFECT!

JayPeaches
07-30-2013, 09:27 PM
I don't even know where to put this but I'M SORRY I think this really reallyfuckingstupid. It makes me cringe!!!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1082342_345686638897972_74662845_o.jpg