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Baltic
03-21-2011, 11:55 PM
This is sickening beyond belief...

Pic under spoiler
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/3/21/1300743987251/A-US-soldier-poses-with-d-007.jpg



The face of Jeremy Morlock, a young US soldier, grins at the camera, his hand holding up the head of the dead and bloodied youth he and his colleagues have just killed in an act military prosecutors say was premeditated murder.

Moments before the picture was taken in January last year, the unsuspecting victim had been waved over by a group of US soldiers who had driven to his village in Kandahar province in one of their armoured Stryker tanks.

According to testimony collected by Der Spiegel magazine the boy had, as a matter of routine, lifted up his shirt to reveal that he was not hiding a suicide bomb vest.

That was the moment Morlock, according to a pre-arranged plan, threw a grenade at the boy that exploded while other members of the rogue group who called themselves the "kill team" opened fire.

They would later tell military investigators that the boy, a farmer's son, had threatened them with the grenade.

The pictures include a similar photograph of a different soldier posing with the same victim and a photograph of two other civilians killed by the unit.

There was no sign on Monday of the anticipated public outrage. But with Afghanistan on holiday for the Persian new year celebrations, and media outlets initially unable to get hold of the images, anger may yet build.

The US ambassador to Afghanistan, Karl Eikenberry, recently confided to officials that he feared it might trigger the same kind of scandal as that at Abu Ghraib in Iraq, where images of prisoners being abused by US soldiers sparked anti-American protests.

For weeks the US government has been working to pre-empt any outrage, with top officials, including the US vice president Joe Biden, in talks with Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president.

Despite being a setback in the propaganda war between the western coalition and its insurgent enemies, Nato will be relieved that for the time being only a tiny sample of a total collection of roughly 4,000 images and video clips have found their way into the public domain.

The publication of the photos will also mark the ultimate disgrace of the group of young US soldiers, who are currently facing military justice for killing innocent civilians for sport and mutilating their bodies by cutting off fingers and ripping out teeth to keep as trophies.

Morlock has turned on his former colleagues, agreeing to testify against them in return for a reduced jail sentence. Some of the activities of the group are already public, with 12 men currently on trial in Seattle for their role in the killing of three civilians. Morlock has told investigators that Staff Sergeant Calvin Gibbs was the ringleader. In videotaped evidence, he has said Gibbs would pick out a possible target with a comment such as: "You guys wanna wax this guy or what?"

Gibbs, if found guilty, could receive a life sentence.

Hans-Ulrich Stoldt, a spokesman for Der Spiegel, said the magazine had other, more graphic photos.

"We published three but not others, and we even pixilated those we did print so that the victims could not be identified," Stoldt said. "We needed to document [the accusations] in some form, and were as restrained as possible."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/21/afghanistan-trophy-photos-us-soldier

Cairn
03-22-2011, 12:00 AM
Oh Jesus Fucking Christ. And WE'RE the GOOD GUYS and THEY'RE the SAVAGES, right? Utterly and completely sickened.

eta:

I did not click the spoiler, by the way. I just cannot fucking handle it. Just reading the description was plenty to set my stomach turning.

ebby
03-22-2011, 12:16 AM
That's is fucking disgusting. I'm totally moving these posts from this the "news and other nonesense" thread though, as this warrants its own topic, and not be to lumped in a thread that's mainly used for bizarre news stories. Just fyi.

Cairn
03-22-2011, 12:19 AM
Thank you.

ebby
03-22-2011, 12:20 AM
Here's the Speigel International piece about the Speigel print article: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,752310,00.html

Jezebelle
03-22-2011, 12:52 AM
These guys are criminals - no doubt. But I really wish they would stop releasing pictures like these. All it does is fan the flames and makes an ending to this whole war that much farther away.

JAE
03-22-2011, 12:57 AM
How evil do you have to be? Seriously. I cannot wrap my head around this.

Kari
03-22-2011, 01:08 AM
oh that's special. Excuse me while I go throw up my dinner.

Maeby
03-22-2011, 01:16 AM
Nice pose with the trophy kill there. I've seen photographs like that one before, they've just swapped out the deer carcass for a dead boy. Sick.

secretsekertary
03-22-2011, 02:29 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJQvf1LZofY

Baltic
03-22-2011, 03:58 AM
These guys are criminals - no doubt. But I really wish they would stop releasing pictures like these. All it does is fan the flames and makes an ending to this whole war that much farther away.

I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. These pieces of shit need to be exposed. Publicly persecuted and humiliated.

Chalk
03-22-2011, 04:21 AM
So, not only did they kill innocent civillians, they then took pictures and then

The publication of the photos will also mark the ultimate disgrace of the group of young US soldiers, who are currently facing military justice for killing innocent civilians for sport and mutilating their bodies by cutting off fingers and ripping out teeth to keep as trophies.

I feel sick.

Cairn
03-22-2011, 10:40 AM
I am not longer just sickened. I am enraged. Do you remember those drug war commercials that tried to make you feel guilty for smoking pot because a poor Colombian boy was murdered so you could have a toke? Well, this is worse.

I want to know when Americans are going to freak out and tell our government we are sick of having our money stolen from us in order to fund mass murder. I'm not joking or being hyperbolic. There is no lack of anything in America (except maybe compassion, a collective conscience). There is no lack of resources, it's just that we prioritize violence over humanitarianism, killing over healing and feeding.

Why haven't people taken to the streets overnight over this? How can anybody be okay knowing this is where our money goes. Let's talk ethical spending here, shall we?

Cunter Fartlett
03-22-2011, 03:11 PM
Oh holy fuck. That is the sickest thing I've ever seen. These guys are cold blooded murderers given a licence and a gun, bored with a gang mentality. Beyond sickening- it's enraging and shocking and so many more other things that I can't even think of right now because I'm so fucking disgusted.

Cunter Fartlett
03-22-2011, 03:13 PM
Oh, and the fucker in the photograph is going to testify AGAINST his fun buddies? How is that even possible? The fucker is in a photograph and they're going to give him a lighter sentence because he's going to sell out his homies? WTF is wrong with this system?

*btw- I haven't heard this on ANY American News Channel or read it in a newspaper.

Savannah
03-22-2011, 03:29 PM
I haven't seen it reported anywhere either. This is sickening. If people want to get pissed off about government spending, they should start here. Not with NPR and teacher salaries. 6 billion dollars a year for this. I posted it all over my Facebook and Tumblr, I don't care if it makes me 'that' person.

Cairn
03-22-2011, 04:04 PM
I love that you're "that person" right now because this is the part of the story that need to be in OUR faces everyday.

toriMODE
03-22-2011, 04:23 PM
I just wonder how these soldiers are able to sleep at night knowing what they have done. Are they that desensitized to killing people?

Jezebelle
03-22-2011, 04:57 PM
I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. These pieces of shit need to be exposed. Publicly persecuted and humiliated.

So what about Ted Bundy's victims? What about Michael Jackson's dead body? How about Stacy Peterson? Nicole Simpson? These are murderers and those people are innocent victims. Showing us only exploits the victims further and only makes us more incensed.

Cairn
03-22-2011, 05:07 PM
There is definitely a dichotomy there. People have a much easier time believing an individual like Ted Bundy can be evil like that because they do not have the same sort of investment in individuals as they do in institutions.

There is a complete denial that such wartime atrocities occur as committed by "our troops". They are part of WHO WE ARE. It's a whole strange psychology and we're trained into it early. I have no need to ever see such images. I also have never held any illusion that American Soldiers don't engage in acts of rape and other dehumanizing acts as well as trophy slaying. I do agree that those who would continue to deny these acts are taking place do need to face said images, and in that line of thought, I do not feel as though it is exploitative, but an act of witnessing ie "the whole world is watching."

Kari
03-22-2011, 05:34 PM
Oh, and the fucker in the photograph is going to testify AGAINST his fun buddies? How is that even possible? The fucker is in a photograph and they're going to give him a lighter sentence because he's going to sell out his homies? WTF is wrong with this system?

*btw- I haven't heard this on ANY American News Channel or read it in a newspaper.

It was on NBC Nightly News last night. Brian Williams could hardly conceal his disgust.

Savannah
03-22-2011, 05:37 PM
I agree with Cairn. People need to see this and get pissed off about it, maybe then we will demand that our government stop throwing away money to allow it to happen (instead of, you know, raising a stink about fucking unions for god's sake). The government wasn't giving Ted Bundy money to do what he did. Also the pictures all have the faces/identities of the victims obscured.

Jezebelle
03-22-2011, 05:47 PM
There is definitely a dichotomy there. People have a much easier time believing an individual like Ted Bundy can be evil like that because they do not have the same sort of investment in individuals as they do in institutions.

There is a complete denial that such wartime atrocities occur as committed by "our troops". They are part of WHO WE ARE. It's a whole strange psychology and we're trained into it early. I have no need to ever see such images. I also have never held any illusion that American Soldiers don't engage in acts of rape and other dehumanizing acts as well as trophy slaying. I do agree that those who would continue to deny these acts are taking place do need to face said images, and in that line of thought, I do not feel as though it is exploitative, but an act of witnessing ie "the whole world is watching."

Yes - a judge and/or jury that is going to convict these soldiers. And I totally think the media should be talking about it. Its just that the pictures themselves do not seem to do anything except make us even more disgusted. Wouldn't we all still be disgusted if we only read the words? I know I would.

I think its so important to protect victims when crimes are committed. And in this case, by showing the pictures to the world, not only are we dehumanizing the victims, but some people will get off on seeing the pictures and the enemy will become further incensed and we'll be even further from this war ending.

I have a hard time with any media created by murders that is shared publically. I felt the same way when they kept showing the videos made by the Va Tech killer. In that case, it seemed to glorify his actions and likely told other "sleeper" mass murderers that they would get lots of attention if they did it.

But for these guys - to me, they're just ordinary murders... the difference is that they are also soldiers and sadly, killing is part of their job. But there are murdering accountants, party clowns and police officers. And for all of those killers - they need to be brought to justice and their victims deserve privacy of their last moments in their lives being shared with the world.

jovana
03-22-2011, 05:50 PM
So what about Ted Bundy's victims? What about Michael Jackson's dead body? How about Stacy Peterson? Nicole Simpson? These are murderers and those people are innocent victims. Showing us only exploits the victims further and only makes us more incensed.


We had pictures of those victims BEFORE they were killed to exploit.

Plus, I think in cases like this.. It's very easy for people to read something and dismiss it as a rumor. Seeing it makes it harder to deny the truth.

I think this is a horrible act of evil, and the guilty parties should be punished. But I think we also have to look at our military institution, and what kind of weird belief system these soldiers are being indoctrinated with that leads them to the conclusion this is OK.

Jezebelle
03-22-2011, 05:53 PM
I agree with Cairn. People need to see this and get pissed off about it, maybe then we will demand that our government stop throwing away money to allow it to happen (instead of, you know, raising a stink about fucking unions for god's sake).


Ug. The Union thing... that one makes my ears steam up.

I think the thing is that many of you are for showing the pictures because you're against the war. I'm against it too , but the fact is we're in it. I feel like by showing the world these pictures - we're just putting more wood in the fire for a longer lasting war.

People are never gonna get so pissed off at these acts that we stop funding the military. To many, the military are our hero's. And these guys are likely just the bad guys in a bunch of good soldiers. Like I said - there are killers in every walk of life.... lawyers, blood spatter experts... etc... (I'm running out of well known killer examples! ;l)

I can see I'm in the minority here and that's fine. I want this war to end very badly but I don't think by showcasing the atrocities of these bastards is going to get us there.

Cairn
03-22-2011, 06:04 PM
Jez, I totally hear you. Believe me. I've done victims' advocate work and you are completely right about what you are saying. There is also a part of me that has never had a problem being the one who has to be the face on something when there needs to be a face on it, so, in addition to what I said earlier there is a part of me, imagining myself the mother of the victim that very much wants to scream "Do you see what they did to my son?" I suppose, knowing how often an abuse survivor's worst trauma is that of being silenced or denied, I don't see it as a re-victimization. I guess we do not know how the actual boys parents feel, I'd think happy there is acknowledgment this has happened and isn't going unnoticed?

And as white trash medicine pointed out, the actual victims' faces are blurred.

I don't think you're in the minority, in principal of victims' rights, in general.

Kari
03-22-2011, 06:06 PM
I think the thing is that many of you are for showing the pictures because you're against the war. I'm against it too , but the fact is we're in it. I feel like by showing the world these pictures - we're just putting more wood in the fire for a longer lasting war.

People are never gonna get so pissed off at these acts that we stop funding the military. To many, the military are our hero's. And these guys are likely just the bad guys in a bunch of good soldiers. Like I said - there are killers in every walk of life.... lawyers, blood spatter experts... etc... (I'm running out of well known killer examples! ;l)

I can see I'm in the minority here and that's fine. I want this war to end very badly but I don't think by showcasing the atrocities of these bastards is going to get us there.

No. I'm sorry, but sitting with your hands over your eyes and fingers in your ears isn't the answer either. This is 2011. We have the gift of technology and file sharing. Back in the 60's and 70's, when Vietnam was going on, this kind of shit was happening all the time. Our soldiers were raping women, killing children, etc. These are the spoils of war, as it were. However, we have ACCESS to this information now, as it is happening. It is our responsibility, nay, our duty as citizens to disseminate this information and say "We are opposed to this. This is wrong. My money is going to the military to complete a mission, not to murder children and show them as trophies". These fuckers who did this - not the entire army - need to be held accountable, and the message to those in the military needs to be "we will not tolerate this behavior".

Jezebelle
03-22-2011, 06:16 PM
Well I hardly think I'm sitting back with my hands over my eyes and my fingers in my ears. I don't tolerate this behavior by any means! They should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They bring shame to Americans and to soldiers everywhere. My problem is sharing the pictures. I'll reiterate again - they're disgusting and horrific. However, I don't feel that by sharing them that we're doing any good for anybody... especially the victims.

Kari
03-22-2011, 06:27 PM
I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the American people. Sharing these images make it real. When you talk about these things without evidence, people are able to abstract it. They are able to flush it out of their mind. You hit someone in the face with the images, they can't abstract it. It becomes real and tangible.

The victim's faces are blurred out. Their identities are being concealed. The likelihood of their parents seeing these browsing the webs in some bombed out village in Afghanistan is slight. It's not like they're going to pull out their iPhone and go looking for it. Besides, other countries show violence and stuff like this in their media on a regular basis. If you watch Al Jazeera, you see some pretty bloody and hardcore stuff. That's why their citizens are angry at the US. And they should be. We should be angry at us too, and not enough people are.

Cairn
03-22-2011, 06:32 PM
We should be angry at us too, and not enough people are. This is true on more levels than I can count.

Lathan
03-22-2011, 06:32 PM
That is just horrible.


Wouldn't we all still be disgusted if we only read the words? I know I would.

To address only this thought: I think there's a portion of the public (how big, I don't know) (and might be afraid to know) that don't read. That won't read. A sound-byte or a picture might be the only way to get through to some people.

*eta* - We have a poster on this board who, by his own admission, will post articles and draw conclusions without having actually read it. And will continue to argue about it. I think this happens a lot.

Hannah.
03-22-2011, 06:49 PM
I just can't believe this. I know I should be angry, but I'm crying instead. Aside from innocent people being killed by these sick fucks, what makes me sad is that I know a lot of people who just won't care about this, and will think that these soldiers are justified, and will feel even more proud of our country. There's still an incredible amount of hatred towards Islamic peoples, and there are still - I just can't believe this - still people who think that what we're doing over there has a purpose and that killing innocent civilians (who are all evil terrorists, btw) is going to make the world a better place. Since it's a wartime situation, some people won't look at this as what it is - murder. And considering all the soldier deification and military worship (something ingrained in us as Americans), I don't think there will be the same kind of outrage as there would be if it were an "ordinary" murder.

Cairn
03-22-2011, 07:00 PM
Choirgirl, I cried last night for the same reasons. Today I am enraged. I will probably cycle in and out of a mixture of these things. You probably will too. So, make sure everyone you come in contact with knows it happened. And make sure you state your feelings clearly (and calmly) to anybody who supports the barbarism. Know who to tell those that support your point of view to write to in order to express their disgust.

Bruce
03-22-2011, 11:42 PM
This is sickening. To view human life as disposable in general is fucked up, but to kill innocent youth for sport out of boredom or whatever fucked up reason they had is sadistic, disturbing, and unfathomable. I'm taking this to facebook as well, so as not to feel quite so helpless about what happened to that poor boy. And it just slays me that he lifted up his shirt to show that he didn't have a bomb. How completely fucked up and cruel. :(

SweetPea
03-23-2011, 03:15 AM
The thing about this that pisses me off the most is that this is so eerily similar to the way the Nazi soldiers treated the Jewish prisoners. I'm not saying it's exactly the same or that US soldiers are "Nazis"... but seriously, the similarities chill me to the bone. It makes me sick to think that there are people out there that think this type of behavior is "ok"... or "excusable" because we are "at war" with "these people."

Please excuse my "quotations"... my outrage has produced an overpowering urge to use "air quotes"... it's that or I just start screaming incoherently.

Cunter Fartlett
03-24-2011, 04:06 PM
He gets 24 years in a plea deal for trophy killing 3 innocent people.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_afghan_probe

SweetPea
03-24-2011, 04:17 PM
Morlock told military judge Lt. Col. Kwasi Hawks that he and the other soldiers first began plotting to murder unarmed Afghans in late 2009

After the January killing, platoon member Spc. Adam Winfield sent Facebook messages to his parents saying that his fellow soldiers had murdered a civilian and were planning to kill more. Winfield said his colleagues warned him not to tell anyone

Winfield is accused of participating in the final murder. He admitted in a videotaped interview that he took part and said he feared the others might kill him if he didn't

*submitted without comment... because I can't form anything more coherent than this statement right here*

*vomit*

stillorbiting
03-24-2011, 08:46 PM
If this was a picture of a man posing with a dead white person's body, this would be all over the media and everybody would be outraged. Even more so if the victim was female, and even more so if she had been young and pretty.

But someone from Afghanistan... I mean, not nearly as much of a loss of human life, right? Not nearly as much of a crime. And this is a soldier we're talking about! Soldiers fight the good fight! They all got it coming to 'em over there in the sand pits where people don't love Jesus. America, fuck yeah!

Ugh. I can't even say that sarcastically without feeling horrible. Raaaaaaage.

Lágnætti
03-24-2011, 09:43 PM
Where the fuck are these guy's superiors? How'd they get away with this for so long? Seriously, military disclipline? Is there any? Or is this rampaging xenophobia, taste for brutality and obvious contempt for civilians basically encouraged and condoned as long as the press don't get a whiff of it? I believe in any organisation, the bottom ranks reflect the top. Short version: seems to me there's some major, major fucking rot at the heart of the culture of the US Army given the nature of the pranks their more lowly ranks repeatedly get up to.


No. I'm sorry, but sitting with your hands over your eyes and fingers in your ears isn't the answer either. This is 2011. We have the gift of technology and file sharing. Back in the 60's and 70's, when Vietnam was going on, this kind of shit was happening all the time.

Imagine if they'd had cameraphones/youtube etc during the Vietnam era. We'd probably have 300 different videos and pics of the My Lai massacre, which incidentally, makes these recent all-American heroes exploits look like a teddy bears' picnic. As I said above, this is not a new problem.

Incidentally, to those who don't believe in showing pics portraying victims of military brutality, what about this one?

http://freshbun.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/napalm20girl.jpg

Exploitative? Certainly. It also changed a lot of things (like the use of napalm) and people's minds in a way a mere descrption wouldn't have. You have to decide to read a paragraph or more of elaborate description about a girl with half her skin chemically burned off because the military decided it was important to napalm her village. A picture, however, hits you right between the eyes. You understand immediately, no chance to talk yourself out of it. Easier to believe your side is always right when you never had to look at the evidence that you did wrong. Which is, incidentally, why the troops who liberated Belsen rounded up every adult in the surrounding villages and made them take a nice long magical mystery tour through the corpse-laden camp. Just a thought.

Those pictures will definitely be shown in the Middle East, believe me. If Americans don't want to see them, that's their perogative not to look, but everyone else around the world will.