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View Full Version : How do you feel now about Legs and Boots?



whatlanguagenodutch
07-07-2012, 07:19 AM
Listening to the Nashville boot and thinking "Glory of the 80s" has seen better days.

I think some of them have held up better than others. I'm glad we have all of them. Her voice just sounds so thin and chesty in a lot of the songs, and that can make it hard to listen. Plus I think there are too many Clyde ones. :)

Ryan
07-07-2012, 07:29 AM
It's another example of her picking the wrong releases. She was really strong on the first leg of the tour when she opened in Europe. She seemed to start running out of steam not too far into the American tour, and the performances pretty much go to shit after the Florida shows. Everything from Texas through to the end sounds pretty tired and breathless. They should have just released the European shows. Munich, Germany was amazing IMO. Luckily the fan boot is really good quality. It's the only time I've heard Roosterspur Bridge and actually liked it.

The same can be said for her "From Russia with Love" boot. It was arguably one of the weakest vocal performances from the mini-tour, and yet that's the one she chose. *headdesk*

underwater-thing
07-07-2012, 08:16 AM
^ why they didn't go for the Milan 2010 show I'll never know

whatlanguagenodutch
07-07-2012, 08:18 AM
It's another example of her picking the wrong releases. She was really strong on the first leg of the tour when she opened in Europe. She seemed to start running out of steam not too far into the American tour, and the performances pretty much go to shit after the Florida shows. Everything from Texas through to the end sounds pretty tired and breathless. They should have just released the European shows. Munich, Germany was amazing IMO. Luckily the fan boot is really good quality. It's the only time I've heard Roosterspur Bridge and actually liked it.

The same can be said for her "From Russia with Love" boot. It was arguably one of the weakest vocal performances from the mini-tour, and yet that's the one she chose. *headdesk*

I actually really like the Dallas L&B, aside from Raspberry Swirl. I did not like the 2007 version of that song. But, yeah, the Europe setlists seemed more interesting and varied overall, and the concept of the Dolls wasn't as rigid then. So in those ways alone, Europe probably would have been better, not to mention the fatigue factor. I wonder if some of it too is how they're mixed--they sound more intimate than fan bootlegs, like how much you can hear her straining to sing, which detracts from the music. There are a few I'll probably always like though. I also really dig Montreal, Indianapolis, and Detroit. But then there are the shows like the disastrous Philly show I was at where I think she was really nervous about the recording (it was the first night) and most of the performances are jittery and awful.

Ryan
07-07-2012, 08:25 AM
Melbourne, Florida is still one of my favorites but I'm biased because I was there. She debuted The Beekeeper with the band, did Marianne and Twinkle, and two great improvs (one before Twinkle and one before Liquid Diamonds). The show had a rocky start because the keyboard didn't work until Little Amsterdam and she started late on Father Lucifer, but things really picked up from there and I think it's a solid boot overall.

Faust
07-07-2012, 08:27 AM
Melbourne is usually my default bootleg for my iTunes library. I don't have any Tori on my computer right now, but I think that bootleg is pretty solid.

Ryan
07-07-2012, 08:35 AM
^ She was pretty solid the previous night in Orlando, but she couldn't release the boot due to the venue (Hard Rock Live). I'm glad Melbourne made the cut.

other pete
07-07-2012, 11:34 AM
Generally they stand up well, several TBK tracks came to life for the first time, and the version of God from the 'Santa' London show (webcast by a Berlin radio station IIRC) is hands down the best performance of that song there's ever been IMO.

Still amuses me that it was Pip who turned out for Glasgow's show at the Clyde Auditorium.

Octopussy
07-07-2012, 01:17 PM
I was pretty obsessed with them when they came out. Because her vocals are a bit rough on most recordings and the mixing is rather thin, I have to be in that special Tori Live mood to listen to them now, and I'm almost never in that mood anymore.

I'm just going to go down the list and see if I can remember the best bits without hearing them:

Syracuse - Best Roosterspur Bridge and Parasol (despite mistake), also freaking amazing long intro to Caught a Lite Sneeze (although the rest of the song is weak)
Philadelphia - I played the hell out of this one, being the first L&B release, so I have a lot of favorites. Best arrangement of Purple People ever, best mixing on the entire series for Liquid Diamonds and Code Red (still my go-to versions of those), great Spark (I think?), nice improv
Boston I - My favorite Cruel and Teenage Hustling before they got all Tourette's-y. Tori set is nothing special
Boston II - Most consistently great release of the series. Juarez, Little Amsterdam, Beauty of Speed, Space Dog (the only one worth listening to IMO), Sugar, Bells for Her, He Has a Well, Spring Haze, and another good Parasol.
Montreal - Garlands and Digital Ghost. I can't remember what the Isabel set is like but I think Yo George and Almost Rosey are good from this one.
Toronto - Take Me With You, A Sorta Fairytale and Glory of the 80s. Pip was better in Boston.
Buffalo - Under-appreciated personal favorite. Great Upside Down, Beauty of Speed, Girl Disappearing and a lite but good Tori set including the best Your Cloud ever and a good Take to the Sky.
Washington DC - Spotty set with some gems. Best Pancake from the tour, Tombigbee, Devils and Gods and another great Bells for Her, Spring Haze and improv.
Detroit - I remember the Santa set being good (with a fun, out of breath My Posse Can Do) but I don't know about the rest.
Pittsburgh - The Halloween show! Best ending to Body & Soul makes it the best version (possibly), Tori set is spotty but I THINK Father Lucifer and Sugar are good. Don't quote me on that though.
Cleveland - Kind of boring set but nice versions of Take to the Sky, Spark, Concertina and my second favorite Code Red after Philly. Interesting version of Blood Roses.
Indianapolis - Great Sweet Sangria, Voodoo, and eh, we already have great versions of everything in the Tori set.
Milwaukee - Snooze!! Best Father Lucifer of the series, good Lust and Horses, but I skip everything else.
Chicago I - A really rough Raspberry Swirl but I love the way it segues into the instrumental jam. I don't remember much else from this other than the unabridged Cooling.
Chicago II - Most. Overrated. Show. Of the set. Vocals are way too forceful throughout, and I'd don't care to hear about Pip ripping off cocks or whatever she does here. Me & a Gun is here though, so you'll probably want that.
Lawrence - Girl Disappearing gets the most love here, and it deserves it, although Buffalo had an equally great one too. I think this was a good Tori set but once again, you already have great versions of these songs.
Nashville - I remember really liking this Isabel set but I can't remember why. Tori set has the best Cool on Your Island from the series and another Cooling. The band is great on Orange Knickers, but Tori is not.
Ft. Meyers - Well it has some exclusive songs to the series but they're nothing to write home about. An Isabel set is always interesting though, IMO.
Melbourne - Probably the best boot from the later half. The middle section of Liquid Diamonds (w/ improv), Honey, Marianne, Twinkle (w/ improv), and The Beekeeper is essential listening.
Clearwater - Best Professional Widow I have ever heard. Also a nice Martha's Foolish Ginger and long Siren. Not much else to recommend here except maybe the funny "smegma bitch" spaz in Cruel.
West Palm Beach - Only thing I remember about this is that it really sucked after she played Gold Dust. So if you have to have it for Gold Dust, don't bother listening to anything from Josephine through the end.
Dallas - Sweet the Sting = wow. Another great Raspberry Swirl, and then IDK.
Houston - Mayray? I think we're running out of steam here. Peeping Tommi is horrible, just horrible. Not David Bowie is nothing special.
Boise - Hands-down worst one in the set. At least the solo section is nice (Not the Red Baron & Black Swan)
Vancouver - Lively Santa set which is good. The rest is not.
Phoenix - This is not bad but you've heard it all before.
San Diego - Overrated. I really don't listen to anything here. It's a bit tighter than the last few boots, at least, probably because she was warming up for the DVD filming. Not totally worthless if you like Santa and Isabel. Tori set is zzzz.

Regina Phalange
07-09-2012, 01:43 AM
I still like them. Code Red on the album was good, but it really came alive live. I sometimes think they're kind of same-y, but that's because it's the only tour where we got so many hq releases in complete forms. So because it's one tour, there are a lot of songs repeated and the arrangement is the same. If we had 27 releases from all tours, it would be easier to compare. I tend to listen to them more than most of my other boots because the quality is so good. I don't have to worry about the mic cutting out or someone woo hooing right into the taper's mic. Compared to the 2005 boots, I like them a lot more because the tone of that solo tour was much more mellow. I know I've said it a million times, but I wish she would have continued to do it. I don't know why it seems to have gotten into her head that only Mark could do them and they had to be put out within a couple days.

NUHN
07-09-2012, 01:49 AM
Ha, I put on "Girl Disappearing" from Lawerence Kansas at JIM's suggestion and this guy keeps woo hooing right at the beginning. ;l

I like the guitars on the Legs and Boots but these have the evil digitized piano, right? That midi piano shit is such a crime. A decision like that encapsulated all that is wrong with Tori's 2000's output.

Scottish Woman
07-09-2012, 04:45 AM
Generally they stand up well, several TBK tracks came to life for the first time, and the version of God from the 'Santa' London show (webcast by a Berlin radio station IIRC) is hands down the best performance of that song there's ever been IMO.

Still amuses me that it was Pip who turned out for Glasgow's show at the Clyde Auditorium.

Did she play Glasgow that year? I didn't think she had.

Andyland
07-09-2012, 05:16 AM
Ha, I put on "Girl Disappearing" from Lawerence Kansas at JIM's suggestion and this guy keeps woo hooing right at the beginning. ;l

I like the guitars on the Legs and Boots but these have the evil digitized piano, right? That midi piano shit is such a crime. A decision like that encapsulated all that is wrong with Tori's 2000's output.

Didn't the Plugged tour have MIDI piano as well?

Ryan
07-09-2012, 05:25 AM
Yes. The MIDI piano started with the band tours. I think it had something to do with the volume having to compete with the guitar and drums? There was an article about it from like 98 or 99.

JHV
07-09-2012, 05:26 AM
I appreciate the Legs and Boots more now than I did when they first came out, mainly because since then Tori hasn't given us any truly amazing live bootlegs. I don't understand why shows from 09-now haven't been released, it feels like Tori's just leaving money on the table and not doing something that would make a lot of fans very happy.

My favorite shows are the Melbourne, FL and Lawrence, KS shows. I love the 2nd Chicago show for the completely nuts Pip set, and all of the other shows have at least a couple of performances that make me sit up and pay attention. Like the Philly show isn't the best, but Sugar from that show sounds amazing and Purple People is beautiful. I also loving having so many unique improvs in soundboard quality, there are quite a few that are close to being full songs.

Scottish Mike
07-09-2012, 07:33 AM
I love the Florida shows from the boots. Melbourne is definitely my favourite (for Father Lucifer and Liquid Diamonds with that gorgeous intro) and Clearwater and Ft Myers are pretty high up there too. I agree with quite a bit of Jim's post re the different boots (Space Dog from Boston 2 is the definitive one!). However (and I know I have bitched about this plenty over the years) I despise the mixing. It is terrible! Her voice is way too prominent, and in certain show it sounds really weak and thready, and the bass just seems to vanish in the mix.

Take the LA audience boot; it's SO BASSY!! And sounds great for it. Especially Cruel. I just don't bother listening to the majority of the boots as a lot of the audience boots have a sound quality that is more pleasing to me. Not releasing shows from '09 onwards seems like a wasted opportunity as her voice was on much better form from then.

underwater-thing
07-09-2012, 12:20 PM
Did we ever get any idea of how well the Legs and Boots sold? It seems like such an obvious cash cow to me. I agree with what others have said about carrying on the releases with future tours. There were some real gems from the 2009 tour, and even more so with the quartet shows in 2011. Shame :confused:

other pete
07-09-2012, 12:26 PM
[meta: this isn't a game or a poll, it's an interesting discussion! move it to MTF?]

Cuddlefish rescued (http://www.unforumzed.com/showthread.php?2143-Best-of-Legs-amp-Boots&highlight=legs) the list of the best performances that OneOfUs put together from people's recommendations on @forumz before the raccoon bit it:

http://www.unforumzed.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by OneOfUs

THE ULTIMATE L&B PLAYLIST

Almost Rosey - Montreal, Quebec
Amazing Grace - West Palm Beach, FL
Amber Waves - Ft. Meyers, FL

Baker Baker - Detroit, MI
Beauty of Speed - Lawrence, KS
The Beekeeper - Melbourne, FL
Bells for Her - Boston, MA
Beulah Land - Dallas, TX
Big Wheel - San Diego, CA
Black Dove - Houston, TX
Black Swan - Boise, ID
Bliss - Cleveland, OH
Blood Roses - Cleveland, OH
Body and Soul - Dallas, TX
Bouncing Off Clouds - Lawrence, KS
Bug a Martini - Vancouver, BC

Carbon - Detroit, MI
Caught a Lite Sneeze - Chicago, IL (Syracuse for the intro)
China - Boston, MA
Cloud on my Tongue - Buffalo, NY
Code Red - Philadelphia, PA
Concertina - Cleveland, OH
Cool on Your Island - Nashville, TS
Cooling - Nashville, TN
Cornflake Girl - Indianapolis, IN
Crazy - Indianapolis, IN
Crucify - Detroit, MI
Cruel - Boston, MA

Devils and Gods - Montreal, Quebec
Digital Ghost - Melbourne, FL
Doughnut Song - Houston, TX
Dragon - Detroit, MI

Etienne - Boston, MA

Fat Slut - Chicago, MI
Father Lucifer - Milwaukee, WI
Frog on my toe - Lawrence, KS

Garlands - Montreal, Quebec
Girl Disappearing - Lawrence, KS
Glory of the 80s - Ft Meyers, FL
God - Boston, MA
Gold Dust - West Palm Beach, FL

Happy Phantom - Pittsburgh, PA (solo: Chicago, IL)
He Has A Well, You Have An Ocean - Boston, MA
Here In My Head - Buffalo, NY
Hey Jupiter - Boston 2, MA
Honey - Melbourne, FL (Detroit for the intro)
Hoochie Woman - San Diego, CA
Horses - Toronto, Ontario
Hotel - Nashville, TN

In the Springtime of His Voodoo - Nashville, TN

Jackie's Strength - Boston, MA
Josephine - West Palm Beach, FL
Juarez - Boston, MA

Leather - Washington, DC
Liquid Diamonds - Melbourne, FL
Little Amsterdam - Melbourne, FL
Little Earthquakes - Lawrence, KS
Lust - Milwaukee, WI

Marianne - Melbourne, FL
Martha's Foolish Ginger - Clearwater, FL
Mary - Houston, TX
Me and a Gun - Chicago, IL
Merman - Boston, MA
Mother - Lawrence, KS
Mother Revolution - Lawrence, KS
Mountain - San Diego, CA
Mr Zebra - Pittsburgh, PA
My Posse Can Do - Detroit, MI

Never Seen Blue - Syracuse, NY
Northern Lad - Syracuse, NY
Not David Bowie - Denver, CO (Bonus)
Not the Red Baron - Boise, ID

Pancake - Washington, DC
Parasol - Syracuse, NY
Peeping Tommi - Houston, TX
Playboy Mommy - Montreal, Quebec
The Power of Orange Knickers - Nashville, TN
Precious Things - Pittsburgh, PA
Professional Widow - Clearwater, FL
Professional Widow (interlude) - Lawrence, KS
Purple People - Philadelphia, PA
Putting the Damage On - Pittsburgh, PA

Raspberry Swirl - Dallas, TX
Roosterspur Bridge - Syracuse, NY
Ruby Through the Looking Glass - Vancouver, BC

Scarlet's Walk - Nashville, TN
Seaside - Ft. Meyers, FL
Secret Spell - Dallas, TX
She's Your Cocaine - Dallas, TX
Silent all these years - Pittsburgh, PA
Siren - Detroit, MI
Sister Janet - Pittsburgh, PA
Smokey Joe - Clearwater, FL
a sorta fairytale - Lawrence, KS
Space Dog - San Diego, CA (West Palm Beach for the intro)
Spark - Cleveland, OH
Spring Haze - West Palm Beach, FL
Suede - Ft. Meyers, FL
Sugar - Pittsburgh, PA (Santa: Dallas, TX)
Sweet Dreams - Nashville, TN
Sweet Sangria - Ft. Meyers, FL
Sweet The Sting - Dallas, TX

Take me with You - Toronto, Ontario
Take to the Sky- Boston, MA
Taxi Ride - Buffalo, NY
Tear in Your Hand - Cleveland, OH
Teenage Hustling - Boston, MA
Tombigbee - Washington DC
Twinkle - Melbourne, FL

Upside Down - Melbourne, FL

Virginia - Houston, FL

Waitress - Cleveland, OH
Winter - Chicago, IL

Yes Anastasia - Syracuse, NY
Yo George - Indianapolis, IN
You Can Bring Your Dog - Pittsburgh, PA
Your Cloud - West Palm Beach, FL

1000 Oceans - Syracuse, NY

Regina Phalange
07-09-2012, 01:50 PM
I also loving having so many unique improvs in soundboard quality, there are quite a few that are close to being full songs.

Ugh, I can't believe I forgot to type this as well. I thought it as I wrote, but it slipped out of my brain.

There are so many of them and they're so different. He Has A Well makes me sob every single time and having it soundboard makes it that much better.

NUHN
07-09-2012, 04:37 PM
Didn't the Plugged tour have MIDI piano as well?

Really? I never knew that, that's crazy. I guess I never heard it until the ADP tour. What did the Beekeeper tour have? MIDI? I'm not very musically savvy but I feel like I couldn't hear the MIDI in the 90's.

Anyway, I think completely acoustic (piano) makes the most sense for Tori's music and (purported) ethos.

Ryan
07-09-2012, 04:55 PM
Something happened to one of the pianos on TBK tour. I remember her saying something about it being "sick." You can definitely hear what she's talking about in a few of the fan boots. I don't know if they had a problem with the MIDI controls, or if the acoustic piano was fucked and they had to use 100% MIDI, but it definitely sounded off.

FYI, she's always used a blend of acoustic piano and MIDI piano, but I think they relied more heavily on the MIDI piano from 2003 - 2007, which is why it's not as noticeable in the 98 and 99 shows. Also, 2001 was all acoustic as far as I know.

Kala
07-09-2012, 10:19 PM
I've no desire to listen to them at all. I love her studio work up until 2002 and all the concerts I saw her at b/w 1998-2003. My love for her live performances ended with the Lottapianos tour. However, if I had to name my favorite female singer/songwriters, Tori would be in the top 3-5 for sure. Her back catalogue of proper albums and b-sides, plus her earlier live work are that good.

toriMODE
07-09-2012, 10:44 PM
I've never went so far as to collect all of the legs and boots, and really some of the audience recordings were better than the release legs and boot recordings.

other pete
07-09-2012, 10:52 PM
I am fairly sure she used Midi for Beekeeper tour. She did not for the most recent tour, I know that.

Yes, compared to other solo tours, on the TBK live releases it sounds like she's playing an electric piano. Because basically she is, via pickups 'watching' the strings of the un-mic-ed Bose. All part of the odd lifelessness of the sound of most of that tour.

I still believe "Mac" Aladdin was using a linked Mac sequencer whenever his acoustic guitar playing intricately matched Tori's piano in the studio. A sequencer can take a played melody and nudge all the notes to the precise moment they should be played at, according to a template programmed in or played in with another instrument. So, for example, a reasonably competent guitarist could follow exactly in the footsteps of a classical prodigy pianist. Which is the audio equivalent of mixing up a packet sauce in a cookery competition :(

Octopussy
07-10-2012, 12:26 AM
http://www.unforumzed.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by OneOfUs

THE ULTIMATE L&B PLAYLIST

(long ass list)

I disagree with some of these, namely Your Cloud which had its definitive version in Buffalo.

Also... I could never figure out the best Bouncing Off Clouds. Every single version of that song sounded like she was playing it for the first time.

orfeo
07-10-2012, 01:10 AM
I glanced at that list just to see where A Sorta Fairytale was from. As it wasn't from Clearwater, I stopped looking at the rest of the list!

There are truly sublime moments scattered through the Legs and Boots, and that for me is one of them. I tend to listen to whole concerts, though. Haven't listened to the L&Bs for a while, but I tend to agree with Jim's overall assessment of shows. There are a few flat ones towards the end.

Volta
07-10-2012, 01:21 AM
I have all TBK concerts and I enjoy them quite a lot.

whatlanguagenodutch
07-10-2012, 01:44 AM
I forgot to mention that, while this version of Hotel (the 2007 one) wasn't my favorite, I did like the way it would go into Code Red. Right now my iTunes is on shuffle and played the one from the first Chicago show where she gives that little improv in the middle and kind of fucks up. I sort of like it.

Even though I was SO GLAD she toured with a guitarist who wasn't Mac, a lot of the 2007 arrangements weren't my favorite.

Faust
07-10-2012, 02:08 AM
I don't like the L&B very much because the mixing is poor and because, well, yeah, I just don't care for most of the 2007 arrangements. Very happy she did official bootlegs (and so many!) but not a big fan of the 2007 stuff.

JHV
07-10-2012, 10:47 PM
^Are there any particular 2007 arrangements people don't care for? I feel like most of these arrangements were better than the 02/03 and 09 band arrangements because there wasn't as much of the "Scarletization"/lite FM feel or as much reliance on cheap-sounding synths. The only arrangements that I felt were really flawed on this tour were Bells For Her and Siren. Take To The Sky was also lacking without the I Feel the Earth Move ending, but that song was pretty played out anyways at this point.

As far as arrangements I liked go, Dragon was a highlight, and I loved how ASF sounded in 2007. Voodoo and Cruel were also surprises that sounded great. Pretty much all of the TBK/ADP songs played were improved on this tour as well.

Dan
07-13-2012, 10:22 PM
Hey Jupiter and Damage, by far. Hey Jupiter is a sad song, and she closed every show with it, all happy and smiling for the audience - it didn't work at all. The Damage arrangement took away the emotion from the song.

Kala
07-13-2012, 11:05 PM
Hey Jupiter is a sad song, and she closed every show with it, all happy and smiling for the audience - it didn't work at all.

She cut the bridge out completely at my show! Curfew thing I suspect. Anyway, it sucked.

Octopussy
07-13-2012, 11:53 PM
I loved Hey Jupiter on this tour. I don't know about the happy smiling performances because I don't really watch live videos that much, but it sounds bittersweet. There's some really great versions where she belts out "I KNOW!!! HE ISN'T YOOOOOOU!!!!" I think Boston (#2??) was one of those.

Putting the Damage On is definitely shit though. It's been monotonous, boring shit ever since she started playing it with the band. That's definitely the worst song of the tour for me. I also didn't care for the 9-minute Doughnut Song.

JHV
07-14-2012, 07:02 AM
I get what you guys are saying about Tori looking all happy as she closed with Hey Jupiter, and her big grins at the end of the show (especially paired with the cheeto wig/crazy jumpsuits) were jarring, but that's an issue with Tori's image/performance style, not the arrangement and how the song sounds. Listening to the bootlegs and remembering the shows I saw, HJ was definitely still performed with plenty of sadness in the vocals and the arrangement was melancholy as usual.

That 2nd Boston show Jim mentioned is particularly good, because there's that hint of longing in the high notes and the start of the Dakota bridge before Tori belts out the bridge's ending and the arrangement builds up for the last notes.

Faust
07-14-2012, 05:38 PM
I'm not that fond of either of the two that got mentioned (not big on Dakota to begin with, but live, ehh), but other arrangements I didn't care for that tour include Concertina, Liquid Diamonds (although the performances were usually good anyways), Take to the Sky, Cornflake Girl, Spark (again, usually performed fine, do not like that synth at all though), etc.

Common trend I'm noticing is I don't like the number of arrangements based on either LP versions or previous tours, but replacing the original samples or piano with particularly bad synth.