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Banjee
01-22-2014, 03:08 PM
This story has been making the rounds this week and I'm a bit conflicted about it. 18 year old suspended from school for being in (gay) porn. (http://www.queerty.com/sean-cody-models-suspension-lifted-principal-claims-he-threatened-to-bring-weapons-to-school-20140121/)
I get that he's a legal adult and that porn is a valid profession, that doesn't bother me.I like porn! Big fan! But, as a High School teacher, something bothers me about having 13 and 14 year olds keeping company with a porn star. It's not illegal, unethical or immoral, but it just doesn't sit right with me. Yes, the boy should be given the opportunity to graduate, but I think he should go into an Adult Ed. program or get his GED. Any thoughts? Help my mind grow on this, folks.

I'm more bothered by the mother's blessing. I have a BIG problem with a mom that encourages her son to be in gay barebacking porn. The kid probably doesn't know better seeing as to how FL is an abstinence only state and sex education is not taught at all. He may not know better, but the mom does.

Andyland
01-22-2014, 04:28 PM
I don't see any reason at all why an 18 year old who chooses to do porn needs to be educated in a separate building from younger students. I'm not sure what logic would be used to argue that being necessary? Should all sexually active students be removed from the general student population?



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Ryan
01-22-2014, 04:32 PM
Why do people get so hung up about porn and sex? Just because someone does porn doesn't mean they're going to fuck your 13 year old. Was he even telling people about it, or was he outed by some caring soul at the school and then expelled?

The truth is that he's an adult in the eyes of the law, and what he does on his own time away from campus is his business. He didn't break the law or do anything illegal, so I don't see why it should affect his education. Should he be expelled if they catch him buying cigarettes? Going to a club? Buying porn?

This, and the story about the 18 year old girl who was arrested and charged for having sex with her 15 year old girlfriend, both illustrate why kids need to graduate at 17. If you don't want 18 year olds who are legally adults fraternizing with kids 14 - 17, then they don't all need to be going to high school together. I'm sorry, Mario, this isn't aimed at you directly but it's something that has bothered me for a long time. You send these kids to school together, put them on sports teams together, let them all pal around together, and treat them all like kids, then suddenly they turn 18 and that all goes out the window. It wouldn't be as much of a problem if our high schoolers graduated at 17 and you weren't mixing minors and adults.

The Seaward
01-22-2014, 04:52 PM
I was about to respond, but Ryan basically said exactly what I feel.

Andyland
01-22-2014, 05:02 PM
It's an interesting idea, but as soon as a kid repeats a grade at some point, you'd be right back to having the same issue.


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ebby
01-22-2014, 05:05 PM
Yeah, I don't see why the school is pulling out a morality police thing when the guy is doing legal work that appears to be helping to support his family. He's not doing anything illegal, and whatever people's personal opinions about doing this kind of sex work, the guy hasn't broken any laws and the school is a public school with a remit to educate its students, not cast moral judgements about legal activity.

Ryan
01-22-2014, 05:09 PM
It's an interesting idea, but as soon as a kid repeats a grade at some point, you'd be right back to having the same issue.


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This is true, but you'd significantly reduce the number of 18 year olds. What percentage of kids repeat a grade? Don't kids in other countries outside the US finish high school before 18, or am I imagining that?

ebby
01-22-2014, 05:21 PM
^we finish here at 17 or 18, depending on whether you take TY (which is optional in some schools, and not offered in others, and compulsory in others again.)

But our age of consent is also 17, not 18. Though there's a certain amount of leeway if the couple are a year apart in terms of age, but any more than that and the one who is 17 could find themselves prosecuted. (which has actually happened, and there's a debate here about reducing the age of consent to 16, like it is in the UK. However, for adult film work, I believe you still have to be 18 in the UK. I don't know if any sex working is legal in Ireland at all, as I can't find clear laws around making pornography in Ireland. )

Banjee
01-22-2014, 07:10 PM
Thanks for chiming in folks, still uneasy about it and so are most of my coworkers. Funny thing, that almost everyone said that they wouldn't have a problem teaching the student or having him in class with their own kids, it's the other kids that cause the discomfort. We all pretty much agreed that having him at our school would be a nightmare for all involved. The big nightmare for us is the potential for huge classroom management problems. One reason, for me, is that in FL we have a gag order on all things sex, and there is just no way to address questions or concerns students my have about sex and porn. I mean, biology teacher can't even show students how to put condoms on bananas like we did back in my day. NOT THAT THIS IS ANY OF THIS GUY'S FAULT, but I think a lot of us on the teaching side would feel better if students had the sex education they so desperately need so that there wouldn't be a stigma on what this boy is doing and so that they would understand sex as just another biological function. students would have an understanding of sex, sexuality, protection, STDs, pregnancy, sex work etc, students should also have access to free condoms and birth control. Then there wouldn't be such a hoopla surrounding this and teachers wouldn't have to deal with the classroom management problems this will bring about-- it would all be a non-issue. But we're not there, at all, in fact, our school culture is headed in the exact opposite direction-- "Abstinence only" and all that. kids are entering high school with very immature ideas about sex if any at all. I had a male student convinced men had bones that made his penis hard. how can you be 14 and think that an erection is due to a bone??? It would be really cool if this case brings to light how much we do need Sex Ed. in Schools, and how we need to demystify sex for students but we're talking about FL here...

I agree with you Ryan, that there need to be alternatives for students that are 18 years old, only because having them in a culture with underage students can be a problem. I actually saw a student at my school arrested because he was dating a 14 year old girl ( her dad, a cop, discovered they were having sex-- off to jail he went). So, it's not always a gay thing like it was for that lesbian student last year (plus, I think she went to jail not because she had a relationship with the 14 year old girl, if I remember correctly, she was arrested because she didn't cut communication with the girl AFTER the judge told her to. she had a case before she continued her relationship with the girl).

Andyland
01-22-2014, 07:45 PM
It does sound like it would be difficult for the teachers, but I can only assume that's true anytime a student has quality or trait that leads to them being ostracized by other students?

Sadly, even in American schools with sex ed. programs, I don't think you'll find many using a curriculum that destigmatizes sex work, or even just treats it as morally neutral. Aside from maybe an extremely progressive/liberal private school.

It's hard for me to imagine a practical way of preventing 18 year olds and younger students from being in the same building, unless you built separate facilities exclusively for 11th and 12th grade, and just had a mix of 16, 17, and 18 year olds. Since students turn 18 all throughout senior year, it would get pretty chaotic if they were forced to leave high school on their birthday to attend some alternative for adult students.

Banjee
01-22-2014, 08:24 PM
On line school? Dual enrollment in the local community college? The only required class in the Senior year is Language Arts, everything else can be completed beforehand. We have students that finish everything their junior year and take college level classes on line their Senior year and sit in bullshit elective classes for the rest of their schedule. If we're going to treat these folks as adults with adult jobs then they should be in a peer group with adults. It would protect administrators, teachers and students more from from these kinds of problems until policies regarding sex ed and sex and students change. I bet even the most sympathetic of his teachers is hating all this because they are probably having to deal with enormous amounts of bullshit coming from """ concerned""" parents: " I don't want my kid sitting next to him, I don't want my child to go to the bathroom at the same time he does" etc and you'd be shocked at how much we have to cater to all this. Side note: I got reprimanded for allowing a female student to read Romeo's part out loud in class. A parent claimed I was trying to make the students gay!?!!!!??? And that was just reading a play. We are very regressive when it comes to sex and we give educators no power and no tools to address issues regarding sex.

Andyland
01-22-2014, 08:39 PM
I can't really imagine that going over well in my area. I get the impression that folks here still have an emotional connection to the more traditional "senior year" experience. I can just imagine the uproar if students who turn 18 in June got the full senior year experience, but students who turn 18 in October got booted off to online school or community college. And I'd argue that an 18 year old in classes with 17 year olds is still among his or her peers. One friend suddenly being able to vote and purchase cigarettes (or appear in an adult film) doesn't really change that.

Banjee
01-22-2014, 08:41 PM
I do want to say that I'm happy he's allowed back to school and allowed to graduate but I really wish (for his safety and for his teachers' mental well-being ;) ) that he chose another option if it is available to him. And my views are not influenced by the fact that it's gay porn, I'd have the same view if it were a case of het. porn.

Andyland
01-22-2014, 08:48 PM
I do want to say that I'm happy he's allowed back to school and allowed to graduate but I really wish (for his safety and for his teachers' mental well-being ;) ) that he chose another option if it is available to him. And my views are not influenced by the fact that it's gay porn, I'd have the same view if it were a case of het. porn.

I guess I just hope he's doing whatever he thinks is best for his life and education. It's not really his concern that a teacher or administrator may have to deal with extra stress because of people treating him with hate or ignorance. There are plenty of school districts where simply being gay, or trans, or Muslim, or non-White would be stressful distractions for many of the students and parents in the district. I don't think anyone should base their educational decisions on how the most narrow-minded members of their community will behave.

Banjee
01-22-2014, 09:06 PM
I can't really imagine that going over well in my area. I get the impression that folks here still have an emotional connection to the more traditional "senior year" experience. I can just imagine the uproar if students who turn 18 in June got the full senior year experience, but students who turn 18 in October got booted off to online school or community college. And I'd argue that an 18 year old in classes with 17 year olds is still among his or her peers. One friend suddenly being able to vote and purchase cigarettes (or appear in an adult film) doesn't really change that.

If his High School begins in 9th grade, as most do here, there is a possibility that he could have math or elective classes with students as young as 12/13. The reason that your "he is among his peers" argument doesn't hold for me is that he can still be arrested for any misconduct with another student. Two 17 year olds don't have to worry about that, 18 year olds do. That's what puts him in a different peer group imo. He faces the law as an full fledged adult.

ebby
01-22-2014, 09:09 PM
I don't think any student should be treated differently just because they turn 18. Honestly, that sounds ridiculous to me.

Nor should a student's personal situation be any sort of reason for them to be treated as a problem for teachers and administrators and other students, unless it is something that directly affects the students.

Would it be the case if the student's job was an evangelical christian who stood on the street preaching to passersby? Or an Olympic athlete training full time and dealing with the pressures of public attention and fame? Or a child actor who is now back in public high school full time instead of on set tutoring?


It would protect administrators, teachers and students more from from these kinds of problems

This bugs me. Every student is their own set of problems for administrators, teachers, and other students.

"these kinds of problems" just sounds like my mother talking about "the immigrants".

ebby
01-22-2014, 09:11 PM
If his High School begins in 9th grade, as most do here, there is a possibility that he could have math or elective classes with students as young as 12/13.

what? how utterly bonkers is your school system? That makes no sense to me. Here, you are never in classes with people who aren't around your own age. The only mixing of ages happens in after school things like choir or sports or whatever, not in the classroom.

Andyland
01-22-2014, 09:15 PM
If his High School begins in 9th grade, as most do here, there is a possibility that he could have math or elective classes with students as young as 12/13.

That's definitely a wide spread of ages in one classroom, but if it's already been deemed appropriate for 12 year olds to learn alongside students who are 17 years and 11 months old, I'm not sure that the 18th birthday really changes that dynamic much.


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Banjee
01-22-2014, 09:18 PM
This bugs me. Every student is their own set of problems for administrators, teachers, and other students.

"these kinds of problems" just sounds like my mother talking about "the immigrants".

Sorry, I'm typing quickly and in my phone. What I meant was issues that deal with sex. Religious phobias, we are given the tools and permitted to discuss it with the students, same as racism. Issues of sex are a no go. Not my rules and I don't agree with them, but that's the deal.

ebby
01-22-2014, 09:22 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Vtxvq303Zjk/UScS4TSBm7I/AAAAAAAAAo4/agBLcROuTiE/s320/damn%2Bthe%2Bman.gif

sounds like the problems are being caused by the rules and the idiocy of the state than anything else.

Andyland
01-22-2014, 09:24 PM
Is sex considered to be a separate issue from sexual identity? If not, then wouldn't a gay student who hasn't done porn also be a potential problem?


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Banjee
01-22-2014, 09:31 PM
Huh? Sex and sexual identity are separate. You can be gay your whole life and never have had sex.

Banjee
01-22-2014, 09:35 PM
And, ANY student having sex is a problem, period. There are vey strict rules governing how we do or don't discuss sex with kids. In fact, we are supposed to report immediately to a hotline any instance we hear of a student mentioning having engaged in a sexual act. We don't have to report if someone says they're gay. Often, when the students are working I groups they'll slip into gossip and I'll overhear bits of what they say they do over the weekend. I cut that real quick because if I hear too much I HAVE TO report it and I really don't want to.

JayPeaches
01-22-2014, 09:37 PM
what? how utterly bonkers is your school system? That makes no sense to me. Here, you are never in classes with people who aren't around your own age. The only mixing of ages happens in after school things like choir or sports or whatever, not in the classroom.

In my experience it was usually the result of missed credits or something. I had a senior in one of my electives when I was a freshman because she discovered upon graduation that she was missing a credit - so she actually took the class the first semester after her senior year. It's an anomaly, but it does happen (especially in elective courses, which don't always have prerequisites).

Not to mention that during some school lunch break, students of all ages are in the lunchroom and can potentially interact. Also during school events (football games, pep rallies, which are a big part of social culture for students in parts of the US) you'd have little to no control over the variety of ages interacting.

ebby
01-22-2014, 09:56 PM
Yeah, but that's life. Students interact outside of classroom environments.

And reporting any student mentioning sex to a hotline? WTF kind of bullshit place do ye live in? That's insane. Criminalising consensual sexual activity is insane though, but the whole issues arises about when someone can freely give consent, hence age of consent laws.

Banjee
01-22-2014, 09:58 PM
WTF kind of bullshit place do ye live in? .
AMERIKUH FUCK YEAH!

lioness
01-22-2014, 10:27 PM
In fact, we are supposed to report immediately to a hotline any instance we hear of a student mentioning having engaged in a sexual act.

WHAT? What is the point of that?

Andyland
01-22-2014, 10:29 PM
Huh? Sex and sexual identity are separate. You can be gay your whole life and never have had sex.

Haha. I know, I meant to ask if they were separate in regards to your school's policies on what you can and can't discuss.

Banjee
01-22-2014, 10:53 PM
WHAT? What is the point of that?

It came around the time that sexting became a thing among students. The why? I'm not entirely sure. Maybe it has to do with a being a "Abstinence Only" state? A FL thing? to add up to all the other weird FL things.

Baltic
01-23-2014, 01:09 AM
This all brings back memories of my high school days in Canada, where I got suspended for wearing a bra to school as a form of "protest" (though it was more of a joke) and a see-through shirt. My suspension for three days was "to protect" me from bullying. A girl at my school, Liz, wore outfits like that all the time, and I wanted to make a point (I'm a male).

I think all of this is another case of blaming the victim (for potential bullying he may experience). This case shouldn't have gone further than a discussion with the student on how to deal with possible bullying he may experience. Sex is still such a big taboo that people do not know how to deal with it when it comes to situations like these. There has to be a drastic change in how we view individuals. Right now people in authority concern themselves too much with group mentality and reaction, rather than the issue at hand, which in this case, is protecting someone's privacy and basic rights. And an individual's personal views on morality has no place when it comes to the law.

But, sexting and internet porn/selfies are still a relatively new thing and it will take some time for people to understand how to deal with issues of privacy and the effects it has on one's life and how to "deal" with situations where one is confronted with the invasion of privacy.

lioness
01-24-2014, 03:04 AM
It came around the time that sexting became a thing among students. The why? I'm not entirely sure. Maybe it has to do with a being a "Abstinence Only" state? A FL thing? to add up to all the other weird FL things.

I'm wondering what the hotline people are expecting to do if you do call and report that you heard that two students had sex. I mean, what can they really do about it anyway?

Banjee
01-24-2014, 09:27 AM
To get the parents/school counselors informed, see if there has been "criminal" activity (underage sex, passing nudie selfies around).