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Beelust
12-09-2016, 09:10 PM
We often debate about where/how Tori "lost it", how certain songs suck, and how some songs/albums have even "destroyed her legacy". I thought it might be fun for everyone who is interested to go through her catalogue and highlight the songs you think are unnecessary/did damage to Tori. This is not about adding b-sides or changing the way the songs were produced, just deleting what you think are crap songs on the albums themselves as released that do not seem like TORI FREAKING AMOS to you...

LE - No change
UTP - No change
BFP - No change
FTCH - No change
TVAB - No change
SLG - No change
SW - Delete WAMPUM PRAYER. Other than that - brilliant!

TBK - Delete it all except for this EP:

Parasol
General Joy
Mother Revolution
The Beekeeper
Martha's Foolish Ginger
Marys of the Sea
Toast

ADP - Delete it all except for:

Bouncing off Clouds
Mr. Bad Man
Girl Disappearing
Roosterspur Bridge
Beauty of Speed
Almost Rosey
Smokey Joe
Dragon

AATS - Delete it all except for:

Give
Welcome to England
Flavor
Curtain Call
Abnormally Attracted to Sin
Starling
Fast Horse
Ophelia

MWG - Delete: A Silent Night with You, Harps of Gold, Midwinter Graces

Gold Dust - Delete entire "album".

UG - Delete: Wild Way, Giant's Rolling Pin, & Promise.

Alpha Neutral
12-10-2016, 03:30 PM
I'll preface this by saying that in most of these cases, I would replace these songs with cut tracks from the same era. So:


Little Earthquakes: China
I would keep everything on Pink intact.
"Agent Orange" doesn't work as well as the other interludes, so I'd cut it in favour of something like "Graveyard" or "Hungarian Wedding Song".
There are no bad tracks on "Choirgirl", but ideally I would mix it and the studio part of "Venus" together, making some cuts to create a perfect 12 or 13-track album.
I'm going to get stoned for this one, but I think "Spring Haze" is just awful. "Dātura" is also way too indulgent, but an interesting exercise, so it can stay on the standalone Venus album.
Strange Little Girls is perfect as is, IMO.
Scarlet's Walk: "Your Cloud" and "Strange" are borderline Enya rejects. I have nothing against Enya, but they don't work on this brilliant album.
The Beekeeper: Le sigh. "Sweet the Sting", "The Power of Orange Knickers", "Sleeps with Butterflies", "Cars & Guitars", "Ribbons Undone" and "Goodbye Pisces" are all fairly mortifying in their current iterations. I can - almost - forgive "Hoochie Woman" because I think it knows it's a ridiculous song and just rolls with it.
American Doll Posse: Frankly, I think this is the album that did the most damage to her public image. Both the visual (wigs, outfits, faces) and sonic (70s hair metal) aspects of it are pretty embarrassing, as much as I think that you could actually rescue 14 solid tracks with better production choices. As it stands, the entire first half of the album really leaves a mark on her back catalogue.
Abnornally Attracted to Sin: "Strong Black Vine", "Fire to Your Plain", "Slutt-AY GOTH", "That Guy", "Mary Jane" and "Ophelia" are fucking dire. I agree with everyone else who hates on "Maybe California" but it decidedly didn't hurt her career - in fact, I remember being stunned at how many reviews singled that one out as her best song in ages.
Midwinter Graces really loses points for "Jeanette, Isabella", "Harps of Gold" and "Heavenly Piss". The rest are kind of uneven, but nothing offensive.
Night of Hunters would be much stronger without "Snowblind", "Cactus Practice", "The Chase" and "Carry".
Gold Dust should never have been recorded, period.
"Giant's Rolling Pin" utterly destroys Unrepentant Geraldines. There are days when I think it's her single worst song ever. "Wild Way" is also really sappy and pointless.


I wanna post my edited version of every single album at one point. I think it'd be a fun exercise.

waitressboy
12-10-2016, 03:46 PM
First, I think it's very different to cut the songs that I dislike than cutting the songs that did damage to her career. For instance, Yes Anastacia is a song that bores me to tears, but I think it's fundamental for her career. So, I'll try to do something in the middle...

LE: Yes, China. Specially considering that there are lots of incredible b-sides in this era, this ballad is a NO NO NO NO. I think the worst part is the "yararararay" in the middle.
UTP: Past The Mission. It is important because a) it's about women, b) it's about religion, and c) Trent Reznor is there. But it's kind of bland, among all the other great songs.
BFP: Not The Red Baron. Yeah, sorry, I still have no idea what's this.
FTCH: Don't touch this album, it's fucking perfect as it is.
TVAB: In the studio version, I think that Concertina AND Glory of the 80s is just too much. I would've chosen only one of those. Maybe delete Concertina; I like Glory better. In the live version, I think The Waitress is unsufferable.
SW: Tampon Prayer and Don't Make Me Come to Vegas and Crazy. I do think this album needs some edition.
SHS: Bug a Martini. I like to pretend this song is something they recorded one night when they were too drunk and were trying to impersonate Celia Cruz.
TBK: Ok, here's when things get hard. Delete: Sweet The Sting, Jamaica Inn, Ribbons Undone and goddam fucking Ireland. I think the other songs work in another context (i.e. concerts), but I can't say one good thing about those songs.
ADP: Man, there are so many songs in this album I don't know where to start. The short songs... it's the same if they're there or not; Fat Slut doesn't bother me because it lasts less than one minute. Big Wheel is stupid, Mr. Bad Man is stupid, You Can Bring Your Dog is stupid, Posse Bonus is a turd.
AATS: Shit. I don't know. Let's keep Fire to your plain, Starling and let's burn the rest.
Gold Dust: this never happened.
MG: this never happened
Night of Hunters: the songs with Daughter. Yeah, let's delete those. And here's what really killed this album: the fucking concept. Admit you made an album about how you want to get divorced and shut the fuck up with the thing of the ancient spirit and trees and goose and whatever.
UG: Giant's Rolling Pin. You are spending tons of money in high heels and glasses. Shut up and pay your taxes.

Encre
12-10-2016, 03:49 PM
Nice thread !

My choices...
I would keep some songs as B-sides

LE : I'd kick out China
UTP : No change
BFP : No change
FTCH : No change, Northern Lad took time to grow and be part of this album..
TVAB : No change
SLG : No change
SW : No change
TBK : I'd kick out Jamaica Inn, Barons of suburbia, Ribbons undone, Cars and guitars, Ireland, Goodbye Pisces, Martha's foolish ginger (i can't stand the vocals)
ADP : I'd kick out Mr Bad Man, Secret Spell, Programmable soda, Roosterspur bridge, Posse bonus, Almost Rosey (it should have been a solo version)
AATS : I'd kick out Nod dying today, Maybe California, 500 miles
MG : I'd kick out What Child Nowell, A silent night with you, Harps of Gold, Jeanette Isabella
NOH : I'd kick out Your Ghost
UG : I'd kick out Giant's Rolling Pin & Selkie (sorry for this last one that you often enjoy)

Venus_Envy
12-14-2016, 10:31 AM
LE: I never listen to "Me & A Gun" and swap it out for "Upside Down", but I recognise it is an important song so I wouldn't change the album.
UTP: no change. Never liked studio Waitress but without it, we wouldn't have the epic live versions
BFP: no change
FTCH: no change
TVAB: no change
SLG: swap out "I Don't Like Mondays" for "Only Women Bleed"
SW: no change
TBK: ditch Ribbons Undone, Ireland, Witness, Hoochie Woman & Goodbye Pieces. Toast should be the b-side and Garlands should close the album.
ADP: ditch Teenage Hustling, You Can Bring Your Dog, Mr. Bad Man, Dark Side of the Sun, Posse Bonus & add Miracle
AATS: should've been an EP to accompany the ADP DVD: Give, Flavour, Curtain Call, Fire To Your Plain, Starling, Fast Horse, Lady In Blue. The rest needs to be gone.
MWG: go back in time and not record it.
NOH: I never listen to it tbh, but Cactus Practice seems to stick out in my mind as being particularly crap.
GD: go back in time and do it completely differently
UG: ditch Giant's Rolling Pin

Venus_Envy
12-14-2016, 10:36 AM
Nice thread !

My choices...
I would keep some songs as B-sides

LE : I'd kick out China
FTCH : No change, Northern Lad took time to grow and be part of this album..
TBK : I'd kick out Jamaica Inn, Barons of suburbia, Cars and guitars, Martha's foolish ginger
ADP : I'd kick out Secret Spell, Roosterspur bridge, Almost Rosey
UG : I'd kick out Selkie

Dayum. Those are like...some of my favourite songs

Carey
12-14-2016, 12:07 PM
abnormally attracted to sin the song is like the only really good song on the album and you kick it out :D

Spikey
12-14-2016, 01:55 PM
Beekeeper;
Kick out Jamaica Inn, Barons of Suburbia, General Joy, Mother Revolution, Ribbons Undone, Witness, Original Sinsuality, Ireland, Goodbye Pisces, Marys of the Sea and perhaps there is a half mediocre album in there. Hoochie Woman also has to go I guess, I only listen to the 4th Floor fan remix.

1. Parasol
2. Sweet the Sting
3. Power of Orange Knickers
4. Sleeps with Butterflies
5. Cars & Guitars
6. the Beekeeper
7. Martha's Foolish Ginger
8. Toast
9. Garlands

Chosen
12-14-2016, 03:48 PM
LE: keep as is (although I don't listen to Me and a Gun, it's too much even on a good day)
UtP: keep as is
BFP: keep as is
FTCH:keep as is
TVAB: keep as is
SLG: keep as is
SW: keep as is

TBK: remove Sleeps with Butterflies, Cars and Guitars, Hoochie Woman, Goodbye Pisces. Add Garlands.
ADP: remove You Can Bring Your Dog, Fat Slut, Mr Bad Man, Devils and Gods, Father's Son, Roosterspur Bridge, Dark Side of the Sun, Posse Bonus. (But maybe put them on an EP or sth.)
AATS: make an EP of Welcome to England, Curtain Call, Abnormally Attracted to Sin, Starling, Fast Horse. Destroy Not Dying Today in a fire.
MWG: remove A Silent Night with You, Pink & Glitter
NOH: replace Cactus Practice, Job's Coffin, The Chase with their instrumental versions
Gold Dust: scrap everything except for Flavor
UG: remove Giant's Rolling Pin and Invisible Boy.

inexcelsis17
12-14-2016, 04:06 PM
These are changes I'd make based on my personal preference as opposed to her legacy. If it were the latter I think everything from 2005-2012 could fit onto a single disc.
LE: Swap China for Upside Down
UTP: TWB for Honey
BFP: Not a damn thing
FTCH: "
TVAB: "
SLG: I Don't Like Mondays for After All
SW: Your Cloud and Crazy for Mountain and Tombigbee to add some energy
TBK: TPOOK, SWB, Ribbons, C&G, OS, Ireland, Hoochie Woman
ADP: Yo George, Big Wheel, Teenage Hustling, Fat Slut, Secret Spell, Devils and Gods, Rooster Burgers whatever, Velvet Revolution, DSOTS, Posse Bonus
AATS: Strong Black Vine, Not Dying Today, Fire To Your Plain, Police Me, That Guy, 500 Miles, Mary Jane
MWG: Silent Night With You, Harps of Gold, Jeanette Isabella, Pink and Glitter, Comfort and Joy, Silent Night
NOH: Cactus Practice, Job's Coffin, Nautical Twilight, Your Ghost, 1st half of Edge of the Moon, Night of Hunters
UG: Wild Way, Maids, Promise, GRP, Rose Dover

ETA- I'm feeling bad for Goodbye Pisces, I think it's a sweet little song! Surprised to see it on everyone's cutting room floor.

grapefruit_is_winning
12-14-2016, 04:15 PM
LE: Swap out China for Take To The Sky
UTP: I've never been a fan of Waitress, but not sure anything from that era would work better in its place. No change
BFP: Add Rookery ending to Voodoo!!! I would soooo do that.
FTCH: No change
TVAB - Orbiting: No change
TVAB - Still Orbiting: Cut Cloud on my Tongue, Mr. Zebra, Girl, Sugar, and Waitress. Replace with Horses, Blood Roses on harpsichord, Little Amsterdam, Liquid Diamonds and Hotel or Black Dove (yes I realize Sugar and Waitress are considered Holy Grail. Not for me, though)
SLG: Swap out I Don't Like Mondays for Only Women Bleed
SW:Remove Wampum Prayer, though I appreciate the context it provides for the album. Would really love to add Mountain, but I think it's long enough as it is.
TBK:
-Change the title, remove all lyrical references to "sinsuality", and make Original Sinsuality a fully fleshed out song (because it's absolutely gorgeous and I love "Yaldaboah/Soklas/I'm calling you Samael" sooooo much)
-Nix Sleeps with Butterflies, Mother Revolution, Ribbons Undone, Ireland, Cars and Guitars, Martha's, and Goodbye Pisces
-Re-record Jamaica Inn, Parasol, Witness, Barons of the Sea, and General Joy
-Add Garlands
-With these changes it would be a pretty great album for me, even with Hoochie and Sweet. They're okay in my opinion
ADP: becomes a pretty long EP called "Code Red" with Beauty of Speed, Bouncing Off Clouds (re-recorded x 10000%), Body & Soul, Dragon, Smokey Joe, Code Red and Big Wheel)
AATS: Also becomes an EP with Welcome to England, Fast Horse, Starling (with a different bridge), Curtain Call, AATS, Ophelia, Fire To Your Plain, Lady In Blue, and Oscar's Theme. Could add Give and then it's a short 10-track album. I would not love this album, but I don't think it would be completely embarrassing
MWG: Never happened. I never needed nor imagined Tori Amos would create a Christmas album
NoH: Improve the vocals but I'm good with the tracklist
UG: Nix Maids, Giant's, Rose Dover and Invisible Boy, and add Forest of Glass, White Telephone, and Dixie

Yessica
12-14-2016, 04:21 PM
LE-TVAB: Perfect as is
SLG: replace time with After All
SW: Remove amber waves, put tombigbee instead of pancakes
TOAL: doesn`t exist
TBK: Remove all songs except Parasol, orange knickers, baron`s, beekeeper, mary`s and garlands, release as an EP
AP: Pointless
ADP-AATS-MWG: Delete delete delete
NOH: Remove title track, ur ghost
UG: Remove maids, giants rolling pin, troubles lament, promise, invisible boy, tack dixie onto the end
LE/UTP remasters: w/e
Flicker: Never happened
BFP re-master: fine

Kala
12-14-2016, 04:32 PM
Cut out:

LE - SW: Not a damn thing.

NoH - SnowBlind, Job's Coffin, Cactus Practice, The Chase, Night of Hunters

Easier to list what songs should be left in:

TBK - EP

Original Sinsuality, Parasol, Marys of the Sea, General Joy, Toast, Cars and Guitars (sans the cha cha cha's)

ADP - EP

Father's Son, Girl Disappearing, Almost Rosey, Beauty of Speed, Bouncing Off Clouds, You Can Bring Your Dog : p

AAtS - Atrocious save for

Give, Welcome to England, Curtain Call

UG - Boring except for

Troubles Lament, Weatherman, The Vicar's Wife

MWG - Re-record the terrible baby voice and except for Harps of Gold and A Silent Night With You it's fine.

waitressboy
12-14-2016, 04:37 PM
Oh, TOAL. Forgot about that one.
Delete the PW remix, Mary, Bliss and Spark (I love love LOVE those songs, but these versions are incredibly bad) and, yeah, don't include Snow Cherries From France. Keep it for twenty more years and see if you can do something better to it.

Littlegreen
12-14-2016, 07:40 PM
LE - xxxxxx
Pink - xxxxxx
Pele - xxxxxx
Choirgirl - xxxxxx
Venus - Spring Haze (it's better live than on the album)
SLG - xxxxxx
Scarlet - Wampum Prayer (Ha!)
Beekeeper - Ireland (and remove all of the cheese)
ADP - Dark Side Of The Sun, Posse Ponus
AATS - 500 Miles (though I love the lyrics, that awful production just makes me itch)
MWG - A Silent Night With Ewwww
NOH - xxxxxx
GD - Delete everything except 'Snow Angel', 'Programmable Soda' and 'Flavor'
UG - Promise

ophe
12-15-2016, 12:17 PM
LE - perfect
UTP - perfect
BFP - perfect
FTCGH - perfect
TVAB - studio album perfect. live album: swap out girl/cruel/earthquakes/cornflake girl for horses/siren/father Lucifer/Pandora. swap cloud/mr zebra for rare secret time songs; mother/here in my head/beluah land/anything
SLG - swap out heart of gold for the as yet unheard growin' up. add studio versions of 'running to stand still' and 'wrapped around your finger'
SW - swap don't make come to vegas for mountain. swap another girls paradise for Tombigbee
TBK - delete ribbons, sweet the sting, ireland, hoochie. add garlands. change the terrible cover.
ADP - delete everything except: bouncing off clouds, secret spell, body and soul, code red, roosterspur, beauty of speed, almost rosey, smokey joe and dragon. re-record them all.
AATS - make this never have happened.
MWG - I like it, its a bit cheesy but I'd leave as it is.
NOH - make this an EP only, with shattering sea, battle of trees, star whisperer, edge of the moon, seven sisters and carry.
GD - make this never have happened.
UG - make this an EP also, with America, Wild Way, Weatherman, Selkie, Unrepentant Geraldines, Oysters, Invisible Boy. Change the awful title.

silver
12-15-2016, 01:36 PM
LE - China and Leather
UTP - The Waitress
BFP - Nor the Red Baron, Agent Orange
FTCH - maybe She's Your Cocaine
TVAB - none
SLG - Enjoy the Silence
SW - Don't Make Me Come to Vegas, Sweet Sangria
TB - Original Sinsuality, Hoochie Woman, Ribbons Undone, Witness
ADP - Yo George, Fat Slut, Teenage Hustling, My Posse Can Do, Dark Side of the Sun, You Can Bring Your Dog, Code Red, Devils and Gods, Velvet Revolution
AATS - All minus Give, Flavor, Starling, Maybe California, Welcome to England, Lady in Blue, Fast Horse and Oscar's Theme
MWG - Emmanuel, Pink and Glitter, Good King Wenceslas, Stille Nacht, Heilige Nacht (Silent Night, Holy Night)
NOH - Job's Coffin, SnowBlind, The Chase, Night of Hunters
UG - Promise

Myshuno
12-18-2016, 11:46 PM
I'm not gonna do Strange Little Girls, Midwinter Graces or Night Of Hunters because I think of them as kind of like add-ons or side projects and they're not all 100% her own material.

LE - I'd swap China for Upside Down.
UTP - no change
BFP - no change
FTCH - no change
TVAB - Glory Of The 80s
SW - Your Cloud, Vegas. Put Mountain on there.

TBK - Orange Knickers, Jamaica Inn, Barons Of Suburbia, Butterflies, Mother Revolution, Ribbons Undone, Cars & Guitars, Witness, Ireland, Hoochie Woman, Goodbye Pisces.
Put on Garlands, Intro Jam, Not David Bowie and Dolphin Song (it's a guilty pleasure).

ADP - Yo George, Dog, Bad Man, Secret Spell, Devils & Gods, Programmable Soda, Roosterspur Bridge, Almost Rosey, Dark Side Of Sun, Posse Bonus. And possibly Code Red.
AATS - Strong Black Vine, Not Dying Today, Police Me, That Guy, 500 Miles.
GD - Get rid of everything except Flavour.
UG - Promise, Rolling Pin. Make Forest Of Glass a standard album track.

thisnotget
06-30-2017, 12:37 AM
LE: China
UTP-Choirgirl: no changes
Venus: 1000 oceans (I often forget it's actually on the album ;l)
SLG: no changes
SW: Amber Waves, Your Cloud, Mrs. Jesus
TBK: Everything except- Parasol, Knickers, Witness, The Beeekeeper, Ginger, Marys, Mother Revolution, and Toast (add NDB and Garlands)
ADP: Yo George, Hustling, Ghost, Dog, Bad Man, Fat Slut, Soda, Dark Side of the Sun, Posse Bonus
AATS: everything except- Flavor, Curtain Call, Fire to Your Plain, Starling, AATS
MG: I barely listen to this one
NOH: title track and The Chase
GD: I don't know her
UG: Promise and Giant's Rolling Pin