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ebby
07-24-2010, 12:26 PM
For all the crazy Catholicism news, inspired by this article in the Irish Times: Magazine exposes 'double life' of Vatican's gay priests (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0724/1224275392905.html)


Carmelo Abbate, an undercover reporter from weekly news magazine Panorama , provides in its latest issue graphic detail of a month-long series of gay parties and brief encounters in and around the Holy See, featuring openly gay priests.

Abbate, who introduced himself into the community thanks to an (unnamed) gay friend, begins his latter-day Decameron with a party in the Testaccio area of Rome.

He and his friend were invited to the party by a French priest, referred to as Paul, whom the friend claims he first met in a sauna. After watching two semi-naked, oiled and muscular gay dancers go through their routine, Fr Paul climbed up on stage for what the reporter calls a session of Dirty Dancing For Three.

That first night ended with Fr Paul spending the night with Abbates friend. The Panorama article is accompanied by clandestine photos allegedly depicting the said Fr Paul in striped boxer shorts in the friends bedroom on the morning after.

The article goes on to detail homosexual encounters with two other Rome-based priests, Carlo and Luca, passionate encounters that are also photographically documented. After sex, Fr Luca, for example, proudly shows off his clerical vestments, walking around the bedroom half-naked. Fr Carlo claims that 98 per cent of the priests he knows are homosexuals.

The reporters friend says he knows many priests who frequent gay spots such as the Coming Out bar near the Coliseum.

Fr Paul and the friend begin a relationship via affectionate text messages. At one point the priest explains he has to say Mass this evening at six oclock but Ill say a prayer for you, if you like.

At the Testaccio party, a Sardinian claims he has come to Rome just for the party, and asks: Did you meet Fr Paul when you went to confession?

[..]

Sergio Rovasio, secretary of the radical group Certain Rights, said: Finally, a piece of investigative journalism which documents something which anyone who frequents gay spots in Rome knows only too well namely, there are a lot of priests who attend these places and who have sexual encounters without seeming to be minimally worried by the evident hypocrisy of what they preach by day and what they do by night.

Lovely!

Lágnætti
07-24-2010, 12:39 PM
Wow is right. Wow!

Btw, I always have a little read of the Irish Times when you post articles from it. It's interesting to see all the stuff going on over there that we normally never get to hear about over here.

ebby
07-24-2010, 12:52 PM
It's the closest we get in newspapers to something like the Guardian, although it's a bit more centrist I guess.

That article also mentioned the gay prostitution ring that was operating around the Vatican too that was exposed last year (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/0304/1224265559432.html). The Irish Times article opened with this awesome paragraph:

“At what time does he have to be back in the seminary?” The question might seem innocent enough, were it not for the fact that the man asking it is a Papal Gentleman, Angelo Balducci, and the man of whom he is asking it is his pimp, Vatican chorister and Nigerian, Chinediu Thiomas Ehiem.

Cunter Fartlett
07-24-2010, 02:55 PM
That's not supposed to give me a boner, is it?

Tarendai
07-25-2010, 04:21 AM
I declare this thread epic win

toriMODE
07-25-2010, 03:01 PM
It's one reason why I don't feel the need to go to church. I feel that I would be hypocritical in the Church's eyes for being there knowing that I'm a homosexual. And even so, I know I wouldn't be the only one there who lives a life in sin.

ebby
07-25-2010, 08:44 PM
Crazy Catholics. They really seem to be fighting to be recognised as the most mental, hypocritical, most out-of-touch part of Christianity.

ebby
07-26-2010, 11:58 AM
Oh, here's some of the video footage: http://www.queerty.com/will-the-vatican-try-to-oust-the-98-of-priests-that-are-gay-20100724/ and the Vatican response it seems is:
Catholic Gay Priests Should `Come Out,' Leave Positions, Rome Diocese Says (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-23/catholic-gay-priests-should-come-out-and-leave-vicar-of-rome-says.html)

The Vicar of Rome today called on homosexual clergymen in the Catholic Church to “come out” and leave the priesthood.

The Vicar of Rome, one of the most important positions in the Vatican, was responding to a report today in Panorama Magazine that said Catholic priests were conducting a double life, citing secret video footage.

“No one is forcing them to stay in the priesthood to exploit the benefits,” the Diocese of Rome said in a statement posted on its Web Site. “If they are coherent, they should come out into the open.”

ebby
07-26-2010, 11:58 AM
Oh, here's some of the video footage: http://www.queerty.com/will-the-vatican-try-to-oust-the-98-of-priests-that-are-gay-20100724/ and the Vatican response it seems is:
Catholic Gay Priests Should `Come Out,' Leave Positions, Rome Diocese Says (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-23/catholic-gay-priests-should-come-out-and-leave-vicar-of-rome-says.html)

The Vicar of Rome today called on homosexual clergymen in the Catholic Church to come out and leave the priesthood.

The Vicar of Rome, one of the most important positions in the Vatican, was responding to a report today in Panorama Magazine that said Catholic priests were conducting a double life, citing secret video footage.

No one is forcing them to stay in the priesthood to exploit the benefits, the Diocese of Rome said in a statement posted on its Web Site. If they are coherent, they should come out into the open.

Mordecai
07-26-2010, 12:19 PM
Supposedly the whole Vatican establishment (and apparently the Italian public in general) have always known about the sexual exploits of priests, both of the consensual and of the rapey/torturey types. They're just not used to having anyone call them on the gross hypocrisy of it all.

ebby
07-27-2010, 01:14 PM
So. The pope has written a children's book.

The lolz will ensue, I'm pretty sure of it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/jul/27/pope-benedict-xvi-childrens-author

Tarendai
07-27-2010, 01:56 PM
You know the camp sounding guy in this family guy sketch?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvWvkDW27Rw

That guy should so do the audio book

other pete
07-27-2010, 03:00 PM
My only real interaction with the catholic heirarchy:

The first lad I dated at uni was a catholic. He wanted to introduce me to his young-ish college priest "Father Paul" who "seemed really progressive".

Last I heard, ten years later they were still together, with my ex still having to get in to the boot of their car 1 mile from home to make sure they weren't seen turning up the driveway together.

"Really progressive".

toriMODE
07-27-2010, 08:43 PM
Progressive indeed.

ebby
07-27-2010, 11:26 PM
Edit: formatting just doesn't work with tapatalk. I'll do it when I get to a computer dammit.

Lágnætti
07-28-2010, 12:10 AM
... with my ex still having to get in to the boot of their car

WHAT the hell.

ebby
07-28-2010, 03:13 PM
Helen, the link I was trying to post yesterday was an article about a new Vatican announcement which threatens a more severe penalty or anyone involved in even attempting to ordain a female priest, than the penalties they have for priests convicted of child abuse.

Women priests: worse than child abuse.

I'll find the Irish Times piece again shortly but I can't post links from this mobile version of the forum it seems.

Lágnætti
07-28-2010, 03:22 PM
Well, I'd expect an ancient, all-male, pedophiles' club to look more leniently on fucking small kids than letting women in. It's only natural really.

other pete
07-28-2010, 03:34 PM
WHAT the hell.

I know! And this was late 1990s not 1950s. They had/have this rationalisation that God must approve of their patience & suffering because he's in to all that, so actually he loves them even more because of the guilt that he has chosen to let them carry. OR SOMETHING. I don't know many religious people but that struck me as seeming a particularly Catholic-flavoured way of internalising it - am I noticing the obvious or stereotyping?

Tarendai
07-28-2010, 11:46 PM
Did anybody see what Dot said in eastenders when that girl asked her about the Anglican church?

ebby
08-08-2010, 07:14 PM
One point in Benedict's favour: acting against this man:


Pope acts against incest priest's group
Immensely wealthy Catholic organisation, set up by controversial Mexican cleric and favoured by John Paul II, likely to be closed down

The Legionaries of Christ, the Roman Catholic group that combines an estimated 21bn fortune with intense moral turpitude and extreme conservatism, is facing its nemesis this month. For years the organisation was protected by John Paul II, the Polish pope, and his former secretary Cardinal Stanislaw Dziwisz, Archbishop of Krakow. Now the reputation of Father Marcial Maciel, a Mexican who founded the group in 1941 when he was studying for holy orders, is at last falling victim to the reforming drive of John Paul II's German successor, Benedict XVI.

Incestuous father of three or perhaps six children, serial paedophile, morphine addict, lover of la dolce vita, and pretend CIA agent, Maciel, who died in 2008, aged 87, built up a huge religious empire. It commanded the allegiance of 750 priests and 2,500 seminarians from 39 countries in the Legion proper, with 70,000 members in a lay offshoot, Regnum Christi, the Kingdom of Christ, and 131,000 students in its schools and universities.

[...]

Benedict often expressed his distaste for Maciel, whose early predilection for paedophilia was detected but not acted upon by Rome.

[...]

Referring to the Legion's practice of imposing on its members a "fourth vow" in addition to the three traditional ones of poverty, chastity and obedience which demanded unconditional and uncomplaining acceptance of what Maciel said, the Vatican said: "By pushing away and casting doubt upon all those who questioned his behaviour... he created around him a defence mechanism that made him unassailable for a long period, making it difficult to know his true life."

[...]

The late pope had called Maciel "an efficacious guide to youth", and applauded his gift for attracting young men to the depleted ranks of the priesthood. Senior figures in the church, who were often the recipients of the Legion's financial largesse, rejoiced in his genius for fundraising and fortune building.

[...]

After surviving constant accusations of sex with young men, Maciel took up with women late in life. Raul Gonzalez and his younger brother Cristian were born to Maciel and Blanca Lara, a domestic servant, whom Maciel met in 1976 when she was 19 and he 56. He told her his name was Raul Rivas and that he was a CIA agent and a security man for oil companies. The two boys and Omar a son she had had from a previous relationship and whom he adopted were brought up in a house he bought for her in Cuernavaca. In a recent television interview, Raul claimed: "When I was seven years old, I was lying down with him like any boy, any son with his father. He pulled down my pants and tried to rape me." He was later sent to a boarding school in Ireland.

Maciel had at least one other liaison. A few years after meeting Blanca, he met Norma Hilda Baos in Acapulco. In 1987, when she was 26, she bore his daughter, also named Norma Hilda. At times their father took his children on trips to Europe. His son Raul is now suing the Legionaries of Christ in the US for their part in allowing Maciel to maintain an incestuous relationship with him for many years.



The full article is here. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/pope-acts-against-incest-priests-group-2046517.html)

Lágnætti
08-24-2010, 01:27 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11061296


The police, the Catholic Church and the state conspired to cover up a priest's suspected role in one of the worst atrocities of the Northern Ireland Troubles, an investigation has found.

Nine people died in bombings in Claudy, County Londonderry on 31 July 1972.

The NI Police Ombudsman's probe found that high-level talks led to Fr James Chesney, a suspect in the attack, being moved to the Irish Republic.

Download the reader here No action was ever taken against Fr Chesney, who died in 1980.

Northern Ireland Secretary Owen Paterson said that the government was "profoundly sorry" that Fr Chesney had not been properly investigated.

In 2002, the Ombudsman, Al Hutchinson, began a probe into the original investigation.

His report, published on Tuesday, found that detectives in 1972 had concluded that Fr Chesney was an IRA leader and had been involved in the bombing.

He added that by acquiescing to a deal between the government and the Catholic Church to move Fr Chesney to a parish in the Irish republic, the Royal Ulster Constabulary was guilty of a "collusive act".



Child abuse, terrorism ... is there anything the Catholic Church won't stoop to covering up?

JAE
08-24-2010, 02:09 PM
Did you see Cardinal Sen Brady refusing to condemn anything on BBC News earlier?

ebby
08-24-2010, 06:17 PM
Heard him on the news driving home saying that it's the police's fault for not investigating further, which would have either implicated the priest or cleared his name. Nice way of passing the blame there - I'm sure the police not investigating further had absolutely nothing to do with the Church's influence at all.

Lágnætti
08-24-2010, 06:23 PM
Yeah, the article says about the British government wanting to shift him away quietly because they thought arresting a priest would cause such ructions in the community they'd regret it. It shows the deeply ingrained the Church was in the power structure of the country at the time.

Lágnætti
08-24-2010, 06:32 PM
Did you see Cardinal Sen Brady refusing to condemn anything on BBC News earlier?

I didn't. We have Murdoch Channel on at work, unfortunately. Anyway, it's nice to know where the pro-life church stands on priests blowing shit up, isn't it?

Tarendai
08-24-2010, 09:04 PM
It annoys me greatly that the religious establishment is getting little or no flak. If it was a lone janitor in a school that was responsible, he'd have been burnt at the stake by a raving mob of scousers by now. Instead we get "leave religion alone"

JAE, Im in love with your avatar!

blissgurl
08-24-2010, 09:09 PM
Huh, and they say there are no such thing as Christian terrorists. Guess that destroys that idea.

JAE
08-25-2010, 01:00 PM
Bishop Daly's 'doubts' over Claudy bomb report claims (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11081080)


The former Bishop of Derry, Edward Daly, has doubts about allegations of Father James Chesney's involvement in the IRA.

A NI Police Ombudsman report confirmed that detectives in 1972 believed Fr Chesney was its South Derry brigade's director of operations and was involved in the planning of that year's Claudy bombings which killed nine people.

Bishop Daly said he had difficulty accepting the police ombudsman's conclusions.

He said he interviewed the priest about allegations that he was an active member in the IRA in the 1970s and was told that he was only a "verbal republican".

"As I have stated many times before, I have always had serious doubts about the long-standing allegations surrounding Father James Chesney relating to the Claudy bombing," he said.

"He died 30 years ago and I am prepared now to leave him to the Lord, the God of justice.

"I have to admit being sceptical of much of the RUC and Special Branch intelligence in the early 1970s and the interrogation techniques and other devious methods by which some such intelligence was acquired.

"Father Chesney vehemently denied involvement in any kind of IRA activity to me on two occasions, in 1974, not long after I was appointed Bishop of Derry, and again in 1977. He also denied such involvement earlier to my predecessor, Bishop Neil Farren."

Three no-warning bombs exploded in the small County Londonderry village on 31 July 1972.

The Police Ombudsman, Al Hutchinson, found talks between the Catholic Church, the police and the government led to Fr Chesney, who was suspected of involvement in the attack, being moved to the Irish Republic. No action was ever taken against Fr Chesney, who died in 1980.
'Betrayal'

Mr Hutchinson said some detectives' attempts to pursue Fr Chesney were frustrated ahead of a meeting between Northern Ireland Secretary William Whitelaw and the leader of Ireland's Catholics, Cardinal Conway.

There, it was agreed that the priest would be moved to a parish in Donegal, just over the border in the Irish Republic.

Bishop Daly said the failure of the RUC to arrest and question Fr Chesney was "beyond understanding".

"I believe that this constituted a huge betrayal of the victims," he added.

He said he was not aware of Cardinal Conway's involvement in the case until it was made known by Sam Kinkaid, then Assistant Chief Constable of the PSNI on 20 December 2002.

"This report now clarifies that the Cardinal's involvement was initiated by the Secretary of State, at the behest of the police," Bishop Daly said.

"Cardinal Conway did not at any time discuss Father Chesney with me, nor did any police officer or any member of the Northern Ireland Office.

"During my 20 years as Bishop of Derry, I regularly met such people."

Bishop Daly said that he had a lengthy meeting with the former Police Ombudsman, Nuala O'Loan, in November 2006 during which he told her her "everything I knew about the case".

No paramilitary group has ever claimed responsibility for the Claudy bombings, and no-one has been convicted of them.

Edward Daly was Bishop of Derry between 1974 and 1993.

ebby
08-25-2010, 01:06 PM
I have doubts too.

About the truthiness of his statement.

menju56
08-25-2010, 01:56 PM
Did anybody see what Dot said in eastenders when that girl asked her about the Anglican church?

Yes! The bit about them liking it when black folk drop in?

Tarendai
08-25-2010, 09:40 PM
haha it makes them feel more integrated! Though I find it worrying that the cast is getting more and more black in the name of political correctness

ThomasKinkade
08-26-2010, 10:09 AM
at least the catholic church gave us saint sebastian!!

ebby
08-26-2010, 11:57 AM
More delightful uses of "mental reservation" to lie, but not lie, this time to a Jury in Canada in 1870 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0826/1224277612419.html)!

In case you've forgotten:


A wide mental reservation is using equivocations and amphibologies to imply an untruth that is not actually stated.
In the strict mental reservation, the speaker mentally adds some qualification to the words which he utters, and the words together with the mental qualification make a true assertion in accordance with fact. but obviously without the words that the priest says in his head and no-one else can hear the statement means something else entirely.

Some examples: Mentally reserved words in brackets.
e.g. "I didn't fuck that (preteen) boy (every day).
I did (not) tell him to stop sucking me off.

Or this article (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1126/breaking86.html) gives some actual examples that surfaced during one of the reports into the institutionalised abuse of children by the Catholic Church in Ireland.


In other crazy Catholic news, the Archbishop of Dublin recently gave a speech in Italian (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0826/1224277610477.html), but with no available english language translation, as there were "no resources available" to translate the speech. Sure, the speech was given in Italy, but the Archbishop himself is Irish and speaks English.

But it's ok, this article about the speech (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0825/1224277542970.html) shows that he was talking a lot of bullshit anyways:


As the church tried to come to terms with its current crisis, he said, it was often not much helped either by concerned, charismatic Christians or by self-righteous politically correct lay opinion.

Making reference to the debate on the role of the Catholic Church in Irish education, Dr Martin suggested that the fundamental role of Catholic schools in guaranteeing social integration in today’s Ireland was not always recognised, adding: “Sometimes, you get the impression that a pluralist Ireland must de facto be a laicised Ireland.”

laicised = reduced to lay status ; to defrock a priest.

And yes. Yes it should be. Unless the priest / nun teacher leaves their religion out of the classroom and focuses on the subject they are teaching.


Dr Martin also criticised the poor quality of Catholic and lay intellectual debate in modern Ireland, saying: “There are no forums for reflection on the relationship between faith and life similar, for example, to the Catholic academies in many German dioceses.
Because the intelligent debate is coming from corners he doesn't like, I guess, such as the "Count Me Out" and "Atheist Ireland" corners.


“There is no serious Catholic press in Ireland . . . Very few people present themselves as Catholic writers whilst we have lots of people ever ready to comment on church affairs, often in a sensationalist manner and with little real knowledge of the nature of the church.
Here's one example: Paddy Agnew, who is a Catholic writer and criticises the church very accurately as the Religious Affairs Corespondent for the Irish Times? But perhaps those articles are too critical? And as for the first sentence, this says it all: http://twitpic.com/1dh35q



“Yet, there is a tendency on the part of Catholic commentators to sensationalism and to underestimating the depth of the crisis of faith and to imagine that everything could be sorted out with a few . . . management strategies.” LOLZ, understatement.



Reflecting on the historical figure of Cardinal John Henry Newman, Dr Martin suggested that today’s Ireland badly needed inspirational figures such as the founder of UCD, due to be beatified by Pope Benedict XVI in Birmingham next month.

He said: “In the Catholic Gazette of February 9th, 1855, Newman wrote, ‘One of great calamities of the modern era is the separation between religion and science, whereas the union of both these things represents the perfection of knowledge, something which makes men not only well informed but also good Christians’.”


Ugh. Separating religion and science may have been a calamity for religion, but not for science.

ebby
08-26-2010, 11:59 AM
And one more, to really set off your Thursday:


'Visionary' gets too much information (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/visionary-gets-too-much-information-2311980.html)

A SELF-styled visionary yesterday told followers he couldn't give them a message from the Virgin Mary as she had given him "so much information" he couldn't remember everything, writes Eimear Ni Bhraonain.

Joe Coleman said he would have to reflect on it all before putting details on his website.

The Dubliner also held up his bus pass, telling supporters he was a "poor man" who lived off the invalidity pension.

More than 1,000 people turned out at the Melleray Grotto in Cappoquin, Co Waterford yesterday to see Mr Coleman.

Mr Coleman, who has attracted scorn for his claims that the Virgin Mary passes him messages, told the crowd that Our Lady had appeared to him with red roses at her feet.

He said she had given him a "fantastic" message and had urged everyone to pray.

But he was unable to pass on the message as it was too extensive.

Speaking after the event, Mr Coleman claimed to be "disgusted" at how the Catholic Church had treated his supporters.

He said he would be returning to Knock, Co Mayo shortly, a place where he claims to see the Virgin Mary.

"Knock may look out. The people are going to claim Knock back. They cannot close Knock on me and my followers."

Mr Coleman claimed his supporters had been "disrespected".

"The Catholic Church -- they cannot bar us from the church -- that's Our Lady's church, it's our church."

Mr Coleman was referring to how he and his followers were not allowed to pray in the Apparition Chapel in Knock.



Oh the crazy. It keeps coming.

Tarendai
08-26-2010, 08:48 PM
Blasphemous heathens! Where is the pedophilia and the rampant decadance and hypocrisy?!

other pete
08-27-2010, 03:40 PM
Yeah, the article says about the British government wanting to shift him away quietly because they thought arresting a priest would cause such ructions in the community they'd regret it. It shows the deeply ingrained the Church was in the power structure of the country at the time.

Shocking to think that they were probably right too. That is, right in their prediction of the consequences of taking action.

Barbarella
09-09-2010, 03:19 PM
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/39/2010/09/340x_ap080113013165.jpg

As Britain prepares for a visit from the Pope, there is opposition from some gay people who believe the Roman Catholic church is intolerant of their sexuality. But in one London church homosexuals are attending a "gay Mass" with the blessing of senior clergy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11218791

Tarendai
09-09-2010, 08:50 PM
Im of the personal opinion that Dawkins and Stephen Fry etc are right to want him to be arrested on his arrival, and he should, we've arrested far lesser known people for far less using the same rules

ebby
09-09-2010, 10:24 PM
Did ye see the article in New Humanist, asking people what they would say if they had an audience with the Pope? It's interesting reading: An audience with the Pope (http://newhumanist.org.uk/2369/an-audience-with-the-pope)


If you were invited to address Benedict XVI during his UK visit, what would you say to him? Richard Dawkins, Philip Pullman, Claire Rayner, Ben Goldacre and many more take part in our Pope quiz.

Official welcome on behalf of British atheists
Richard Dawkins, evolutionary biologist: "Mr Ratzinger, as head of the worlds second most evil religion you are not welcome. True, your church recently pardoned Galileo (four centuries late), and eventually revoked its historic anti-Semitism. But the equally long-established misogyny remains. On almost all issues concerned with sex, contraception, population and reproduction your stance is illiberal, inhumane and immoral, and your propaganda claim that condoms dont protect against AIDS is scientifically inaccurate and murderously cynical. In criminally shielding child-raping priests from justice you have placed the welfare of your church ahead of your victims. Go home to your tinpot Mussolini-concocted principality, and dont come back."

Claire Rayner, broadcaster and campaigner: "I have no language with which to adequately describe Joseph Alois Ratzinger, AKA the Pope. In all my years as a campaigner I have never felt such animus against any individual as I do against this creature. His views are so disgusting, so repellent and so hugely damaging to the rest of us, that the only thing to do is to get rid of him."


Great minds think . . . clink
Francis Wheen, journalist and broadcaster: "You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence. In short, sonny youre nicked."

Johann Hari, journalist: "I am placing you under arrest for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, and for your central role in the systematic cover-up of the rape of children across five continents. You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not say now something you may later rely on in court. Wait there - Ive called for a police officer to take you down to the cells."

read the rest at the link. They're worth reading. (http://newhumanist.org.uk/2369/an-audience-with-the-pope)

The Seaward
09-09-2010, 10:31 PM
i thought this thread was going involve smiting murlocs with holy water and collecting gold for the big JC.

:(

still good, though!

Lathan
09-15-2010, 05:24 PM
Belgians apostasizing in record numbers (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/benelux/100910/catholic-church-belgium-sexual-abuse-priests)


Faced with ever-more harrowing revelations of child sex abuse by Roman Catholic clergymen, Belgians are turning in record numbers to apostasy formally breaking with their religion through a process of de-baptism.

It has increased enormously since the cases of child abuse. It keeps going up, said Bjorn Siffer, deputy director of Flemish Humanist-Secular Society. We know from the bishops' secretaries that they cant cope with all the requests they are getting for de-baptism.

Siffer says 80 people ditched Catholicism during a single de-baptism day in Antwerp in June and a similar number dropped out of the Church in an event earlier this year in the western city of Kortrijk.

A secular organization in Belgiums French-speaking south says 869 people have used its help to sever links with the Church so far this year, compared to 380 for the whole of 2009, and just 66 two years ago.

"The pedophilia cases play a part, but its more that people have had enough of the positions which the Catholic Church has taken on issues like abortion, contraception and homosexuality," said Daniel Leclerq, a coordinator at the Federation of Friends of Secular Morality.

Leclerq said many people were also influenced to leave the church because of the decision by Pope Benedict XVI last year to lift the excommunication of Bishop Richard Williamson, who has described Jews as enemies of the Church and denied the existence of the Nazi gas chambers.

Belgium was shaken by the revelation in April that the Bishop of Bruges Roger Vanhegheluwe, one of the countrys best-known clergymen, had sexually abused his own nephew for 13 years, starting when the boy was just 5 years old.

The country was further shocked over the weekend when a Church inquiry commission published the often graphic testimony of hundreds of people who stepped forward to say they had been abused by priests in their youth.

None of us was prepared for the severity of some of the accounts of abuse that we were given,said Peter Adriaenssens, the child psychiatrist who headed the inquiry. All of us at one time questioned our faith in God, the Church and humanity.

Widespread suspicions that the Church authorities covered up such crimes intensified after newspapers last month published transcripts of meetings between Vanhegheluwes victim and Cardinal Godfried Danneels. Texts show the former head of the Church in Belgium trying to persuade the man, now in his 40s, to hold off on going public with his accusations.

The Catholic hierarchy has hit back, claiming the papers edited the text to carry out a character assassinationof the cardinal and denouncing police searches of Danneels home and other Church properties. However, theres no doubt that many Belgians have had their faith severely dented.

With these cases of pedophilia, the Catholic Church no longer enjoys the same esteem among many people, Cannon Herman Cosijns, episcopal vicar of the Brussels diocese, told French television last month. It will come back, but this is a difficult time.

The secular organizations deny that they are taking advantage of the child sex scandals to encourage people to leave the Catholic Church or any other religion. But they do make it easier by offering downloadable forms on their websites. Once the forms are filled in and returned, the organizations will send them on to Church authorities who will strike the apostates off the baptismal register.

Those who end their affiliation with the Church are no longer excommunicated, but they cannot be married in the church or have a Catholic funeral.

This nation of 10 million remains a mainly Catholic country, but the Churchs influence is declining. The Flemish Christian Democratic partys defeat in 1999 elections ended generations of its political domination in the Dutch-speaking north. Since then, the country became a pioneer in legalizing same-sex marriages and euthanasia.

A poll released in January found 60 percent described themselves as Catholics, compared to 72 percent in 1980 and 68 percent in 2000. The number of practicing Catholics declined from 46 percent in 1980 to 14 percent this year, according to the poll in the daily Le Soir newspaper.

While there are countless lapsed Catholics, those who officially renounce the religion are a small but growing minority. Eric Lorio is one who decided to take that extra step.

even more... (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/benelux/100910/catholic-church-belgium-sexual-abuse-priests)

Backlash? What's that?

beanstew
09-15-2010, 05:57 PM
Pope's adviser pulls out of visit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11317441)



One of the Pope's senior advisers has pulled out of the papal visit to Britain, after reportedly saying the UK is a "Third World country" marked by "a new and aggressive atheism".

spyk_
09-15-2010, 06:52 PM
This is by far my favourite:


Nick Doody, comedian: "Hello, er, do I call you Popey? Mr Pope? Herr Ratzinger? Ratzinger sounds like an anti-rodent spray. Anyway, youre probably wondering what this is. Its a condom dont panic, my intentions are honourable. Now, just relax as I roll it over your head... Dont be silly, of course you can breathe. After all, a molecule of oxygen is far smaller than, say, the HIV virus, and if, as you claim, that can get through, you should be in no danger at all. Why are you struggling? Have a little faith! Ah, now youve gone blue. And still. Perhaps Id better leave... I bet this isnt how you thought youd be found."

toriMODE
09-15-2010, 10:16 PM
That's awesome!

ebby
09-17-2010, 02:36 PM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs614.snc4/59393_154961507856657_100000284263212_391277_2544249_n.jpg

wow.

spyk_
09-17-2010, 10:35 PM
Did any Brits listen to the Jeremy Vine Show on Radio 2 this afternoon? They discussed the Pope's comments about Britain suffering from 'aggressive atheism'. It was a glorious display of ignorance and fuckwittery (as the Vine show usually is). They were debating whether or not it was a taboo to be Christian in today's society. All the atheists who rang in where very rude towards people of faith; and made loads of anti-relgious comments that just came across as snide rather than actually debating anything. All the Christians who rang in played the usual 'Christians are persecuted' card, and then procceded to talk about what a dick Richard Dawkins is....as if Richard Dawkins speaks for all atheists. It made me almost want to call in myself. Then I realised I still had a shred of dignity left, and didn't.

beanstew
09-17-2010, 10:42 PM
I didn't catch that as I was at work. The Sexpress and Daily Hate Mail are covering it in their usual style.

http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c71692/media/image/201009/php3W14dXexpress.jpg

Pope's battle to save Christmas (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1313025/POPES-UK-VISIT-Benedict-defends-Christmas-warns-religion-sidelined-Parliament-speech.html) CAUTION: Daily Wail link

JAE
09-17-2010, 10:59 PM
Did any Brits listen to the Jeremy Vine Show on Radio 2 this afternoon? They discussed the Pope's comments about Britain suffering from 'aggressive atheism'. It was a glorious display of ignorance and fuckwittery (as the Vine show usually is). They were debating whether or not it was a taboo to be Christian in today's society. All the atheists who rang in where very rude towards people of faith; and made loads of anti-relgious comments that just came across as snide rather than actually debating anything. All the Christians who rang in played the usual 'Christians are persecuted' card, and then procceded to talk about what a dick Richard Dawkins is....as if Richard Dawkins speaks for all atheists. It made me almost want to call in myself. Then I realised I still had a shred of dignity left, and didn't.

I am sick of fucking whiny Christian twats. By 'persecuted' they mean that they don't have the complete monopoly on society that they would like to have. Just because people are able to think for themselves and call them out on their shit; they are halfway towards being killed in gas chambers.

spyk_
09-17-2010, 11:26 PM
^ Yes. Although to be honest the atheists that rang in annoyed me more. One of them kept comparing someone's belief in God to a child's belief in Father Christmas. Whilst I can see the logic behind that comparison, it's clearly a bit different in practise (and a bit of a tiered cliche) - and if I were a Christian I'd find it really offensive. But yeah, the whiny Christians gind my gears too. The Pope needs to just STFU. If people's faith is so important and holy, then it shouldn't matter how many other people share your views. That, or The Pope buys The Daily Mail and believes everything he reads. Wouldn't be suprised. All that said, the Christians here in the UK aren't 5% as bad as some of those charming ones in the US. Geesh.

Tarendai
09-18-2010, 10:01 PM
hmmm, no jokes about the popemobile, gosh all the material Ive seen and none of it has been posted here =s

This thing goes 160MPH! Yet it is depriving the residents of london of working internet by blocking access for OpenReach Engineers:

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Firuze/Popemobile.png

beanstew
09-18-2010, 10:06 PM
hmmm, no jokes about the popemobile, gosh all the material Ive seen and none of it has been posted here =s


You mean this thing:

http://beanstew.co.uk/static/images/protest-the-pope-2010/IMG_2108.jpg

:D

beanstew
09-18-2010, 11:40 PM
Excellent protest today. :)

http://beanstew.co.uk/static/images/protest-the-pope-2010/IMG_1996.JPG

http://beanstew.co.uk/static/images/protest-the-pope-2010/IMG_2070.jpg

http://beanstew.co.uk/static/images/protest-the-pope-2010/IMG_2073.jpg

http://beanstew.co.uk/static/images/protest-the-pope-2010/IMG_2117.jpg

http://beanstew.co.uk/static/images/protest-the-pope-2010/IMG_2164.jpg

http://beanstew.co.uk/static/images/protest-the-pope-2010/IMG_2211.jpg

http://beanstew.co.uk/static/images/protest-the-pope-2010/IMG_2222.jpg

liquid_running
09-19-2010, 01:45 AM
The "Papa Don't Preach" one is my favourite.

Tarendai
09-19-2010, 01:53 AM
This is more accurate than ever

http://files.sharenator.com/pedo_pope_Pedopope-s425x900-55039-580.jpg

space dog
09-20-2010, 05:39 PM
More from Sister Sinead


17.09.10 A Letter To The Pope in response to his remarks of sept 16th regarding the catholic church's handling of child abuse.



Dear Sir,

Your remarks of September 16 concerning church authorities’ handling of child rape complaints give the impression that neither John Paul II nor yourself knew of how these complaints were being managed.
Can you please make clear exactly who has been running the church since 1979?
You have said church authorities did not act quickly nor decisively in dealing with complaints. This is entirely dishonest.
In fact authorities acted extremely quickly and decisively, but in protection of priests and the church, not of children.
In your letter to Irish mass-goers you said the Irish hierarchy in transferring abusive priests had acted with “a well-intentioned desire to protect the reputation of the church”.
If there is now any such well-intentioned desire on your part then why have you not in outrage fired every employee of the church who contributed even in the remotest of ways, consciously or unconsciously, to the murder of Christ as made manifest in those children who were ravaged?
It looks extremely bad that you have not done so. And that you continue to set up lies and smoke-screens and treat us as if we are stupid.
Spokespeople on your behalf keep saying, falsely, that hierarchies acted independently of the vatican, when countless pleading letters from bishops to the vatican show that is not the case. As do the specific instructions issued by the vatican in 1962 to all bishops for dealing with complaints of rape. Those instructions required the victim making complaints, as well as the cleric taking complaints, to sign an oath (the Brady oath) of silence under threat of excommunication.
Your letter of 2001 to all bishops confirms the 1962 instructions were in operation until 2001.
Why do you allow your representatives to lie?
Do you not deserve better from your employees?
We deserve better.
As long as the house of The Holy Spirit remains a haven for criminals, the church's reputation will remain ruined.
The Holy Spirit deserves better.
Which reminds me. You have terrible PR people.
If I were you I'd give them the boot too.

Sinead

ebby
09-20-2010, 06:23 PM
I fucking love Sinad on this issue. She's angry, but focused and knows her stuff.

Here she is on Sky News two days earlier:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jff_RO4PQ00

beanstew
09-20-2010, 06:25 PM
I fucking love Sinad on this issue. She's angry, but focused and knows her stuff.


Word.

ebby
09-20-2010, 06:29 PM
That's a great interview, btw. She's really on the ball.

And from that interview: Totally didn't know that the Queen had to wear black in the presence of the pope, as only a catholic queen can wear white. Talk about a load of bollox.

Tarendai
09-20-2010, 09:16 PM
Shes meant to wear black as a sign of deference. While Im not a great fan of the Queens Wisdom, I would rather her than Ratszinger

beanstew
09-21-2010, 04:42 PM
Vatican bank being investigated for money laundering now (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/21/officials-investigating-vatican-bank-for-money-laundering/?hpt=T2).

Edit: BBC report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11380628)

other pete
11-08-2010, 11:53 AM
NEWS JUSTIN: Angels are Gay (http://www.thepoke.co.uk/index.php/2010/11/02/catholic-church-in-turmoil-angels-are-gay/)

ebby
11-08-2010, 07:03 PM
An interesting article about Ireland, homosexuality, blasphemy, the Catholic Church, and the clerical sex abuse scandal. The Irish Priesthood Goes Burlesque (http://www.glreview.com/article.php?articleid=260)

Almost 25 years later, the pedophile priest is no longer a joke. A series of priest sex scandals in the 1990s and three major public inquiries into sexual and institutional abuse have shaken the Catholic Churchs hold on Irish culture and politics. Last year, 2009, was perhaps a tipping pointwith the publication of two devastating reports on sexual and physical abuse in Catholic institutions, the Murphy and Ryan Reports. In their wake, a range of cultural and countercultural responsestheatrical performances, staged testimonies, protest art, grassroots Web activism, drag showssuggests the ongoing impact of these scandals on Ireland, as artists and activists grapple with the history of sexual abuse and institutional hypocrisy, the stakes of sexual freedom, and the relation of church and state in Ireland.


A performance I was a part of might just be one of the cornerstones of the article too, just fyi.

Tarendai
11-20-2010, 11:22 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11804398

Pope condones condom use in exceptional cases - book


Pope Benedict XVI has said the use of condoms is acceptable in exceptional circumstances, according to a new book.

He said condoms could reduce the risk of HIV infection, such as for a male prostitute, in a series of interviews given to a German journalist.

But he said a more humane attitude to sexuality, and not condom use, was the proper way to combat HIV infection.

The comments were made in a new book, which the Vatican newspaper ran excerpts of in its Saturday edition.

The Church's hardline stance over contraception has led to the Vatican being heavily criticised for its position in the context of the Aids crisis.

JHV
11-21-2010, 12:05 AM
While I am glad to see the church's position on condom use softening, could the Pope have used a worse example in terms of PR?

Chalk
11-21-2010, 12:10 AM
^^No, they just arrived to the early 80s.

Jezebelle
11-21-2010, 01:33 AM
I don't even understand his statement.... I mean, WUT? So when I think of male prostitutes, I think most of them they're gay (and likely catering to Republicans!). So is he overlooking this part of it all? And what about prostitution in general? Is prostitution altogether okay now too? I just... WUT?

Tarendai
11-21-2010, 01:53 AM
Maybe its an internal bulletin that got sent to the wrong address?

Jezebelle
11-21-2010, 02:04 AM
I figured it out! He only knows about it because of male prostitutes catering to priests! ;l

ebby
12-22-2010, 01:07 PM
Sinad O'Connor has a letter in today's Irish Times, telling the pope to stand down, and ripping into the Irish cardinal for his comments on the ECHR case re: abortion access in Ireland:


Madam, – I would like firstly to ask Cardinal Sen Brady a question regarding his expressed thoughts on last week’s European Court of Human Rights’ ruling on the right to life of Irish mothers when their life is truly threatened by pregnancy.

I hope he cares enough to reply – and not through his secretary.

Does he realise how disturbing it is to see him attempt to insert himself into a relationship of any sort with Irish civil law when he is Irish CEO of an organisation which never bothered with civil law when it should have. And whose so-called “norms” of July 2010 still say only to co-operate with civil authorities “where local laws require it”? The norms document very clearly does not say to “contact civil authorities” and in the small print it states that priests will have “benefit of clergy” which means they will not be given over to civil authorities by the church.

So what’s the deal? Is the church in or out of Irish civil law? And if it’s in, does that mean it’s really in, or only when it suits it?

Also, this week’s remark by Pope Benedict on paedophilia that “In the 1970s paedophilia was theorised as something fully in conformity with man and even with children” (World News, December 21st) are absolutely warped and display the paedophilic mentality which tries to make the children complicit.

Who theorised such a thing? Children were never in conformity with paedophilia. When did such theorising cease? Why were we never told that it had been the theory? And why was this said in a situation where the general public can’t ask the burning questions? Any other head of state making such a remark would be asked to stand down. This is a clear insight into the mind of the man who oversaw the Vatican response to child rape allegations for the past 30 years and who is now running the church.

Can we please now stand up and say we will not go any further with this man as pope.

He must stand down immediately and hand the church over to the people. – Yours, etc,

SINEAD O’CONNOR,
Strand Road,
Bray, Co Wicklow.

ebby
12-22-2010, 01:09 PM
Oh, there's also this wonderful letter in response to the news that it took the catholic church 17 years to report a known child abuser to the police:


Madam, – As a person brought up in the Roman Catholic faith and who served as an altar boy, I have very grave reservations at why it took the archdiocese of Dublin 17 years to report Tony Walsh to the civil police authorities.

For a priest like Tony Walsh to have been able to abuse children on a scale similar to Brendan Smyth is deeply distressing. We will perhaps never know the number of children’s lives that this man ruined and sent to their graves. His abuse of hundreds of children, and the deep pain and emotion these innocent victims could no longer cope with, ultimately led to many committing suicide.

The whole church system of dealing with child sex abusers seems to protect the abuser and not the victim. Canon law and the procedures the Catholic Church in Ireland operates under are still today the biggest part of the problem.

In 2010 there is a Cardinal and Primate of All Ireland living in an ivory tower in Armagh and also a number of bishops – present and emeritus – across Ireland who still live in denial and who do not fully comprehend the enormity and scale of the child abuse that occurred in virtually every diocese, including my own of Down and Connor. These clerics are obviously living in a world totally apart from the victims who were abused by servants of the church and God.

Now the Stormont Executive has announced an inquiry into historical institutional child abuse in the North (Home News, December 18th). If this inquiry is ever to have any lasting and permanent credibility then it should fully extend its remit not only to the church institutions but to all cases of child abuse in every diocese in the North. The cost should not matter, and the Stormont Executive should fully ensure that canon law, the Irish Catholic Church, and Rome do not prevent or delay the conduct of a full investigative inquiry.

Furthermore the victims should be the primary architects of this inquiry, and request that the Irish Catholic Church fully co-operate to the inquiry’s requests for information. The Stormont Executive should also ensure that if the Irish Catholic Church does not assist, that court and police authorities can intervene.

To the deceased and living victims of child clerical abuse in Ireland we can only pray and hope that one day the Irish Catholic Church will finally accept that they have been the core crux of the problem. – Yours, etc,

PATRICK CLARKE,
Carrigard,
Dundrum, Co Down.

ebby
01-07-2011, 03:29 PM
the Catholic Church no longer believes in Creationism, instead they've decided that god created the big bang. no, really (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0106/breaking70.html?via=mr)

LOLZ

Lathan
01-07-2011, 03:36 PM
Is that kind of like taking over the December 25th holiday?

SoulQuake
01-07-2011, 07:04 PM
I can't wait for the year 2058 when the vatican announces that the sky really is blue (because that's god's favorite color of course).

SparkleMotion
01-07-2011, 07:50 PM
Oh, the earth being created in 6 days is allegory now? What about the rest of the book?

JHV
01-07-2011, 08:04 PM
Oh, the earth being created in 6 days is allegory now? What about the rest of the book?

The Catholic Church has long held that much of Genesis (Adam and Eve, Noah, etc.) is an allegory. They also believe the bible is the work of "divine inspiration" and isn't the literal word of God like some of the more fundamentalist churches.

What's sad is that that gives them an easy way out of rejecting some of the Bible's more ridiculous rules/laws but they still don't take it most of the time.

Mordecai
01-07-2011, 11:23 PM
A Belgian priest came up with the Big Bang theory, I believe.

For all its shittiness, they do have some sensible people. Like this guy:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LJKigLT_D8

He's the Pope's Latinist.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fRW1HUkG3c

Too bad it's ultimately hypocritical. (As open minded as some of them try to be, they still have to cling to theology and social teaching to remain in good standing with the Church.)

other pete
01-14-2011, 10:51 AM
Incidentally:


I didn't catch that as I was at work. The Sexpress and Daily Hate Mail are covering it in their usual style.

http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c71692/media/image/201009/php3W14dXexpress.jpg



Now take a wild guess what update lies behind this spoiler:





Six men arrested over alleged pope plot released
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/19/six-men-pope-plot-released)
Street cleaners who were arrested on Friday said to pose no credible threat and have been released without charge



Funny thing is, if you search the Daily Express website for "pope plot" all you get is a story about the shocking 6th arrest (http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/search/pope%20plot/).

ebby
01-14-2011, 05:34 PM
oh :)

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_levgipCEz61qcsbslo1_500.gif

beanstew
01-14-2011, 05:50 PM
Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12191423)



Pope Benedict XVI has formally approved a miracle attributed to his late predecessor, paving the way to John Paul II's beatification on 1 May.

The process of beatification, or declaring the late pontiff to be "blessed", is a crucial step towards making him a saint.

John Paul II died in 2005 after a papacy of nearly 27 years.

The Vatican credits him with the miraculous cure of a nun said to have had Parkinson's Disease.

ebby
01-14-2011, 06:05 PM
Just read about that this minute, and was about to pass on a pithy comment about how opposing condom use to prevent the spread of HIV is just so damn saintly.

And that nun? She was just suffering caffeine withdrawals, and he gave her coffee. Simple as. ;)

beanstew
01-14-2011, 06:26 PM
They're talking about his holy life on the Beeb now. What a load of bollocks.

ebby
03-11-2011, 04:10 PM
So, our new Minister for Education here is an Atheist, and one of the first things he's done since he took office this week? : Forum on Catholic patronage in schools planned (http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0311/education.html)


Minister for Education Ruairi Quinn has said he will be establishing a forum to identify how schools can be transferred out of Catholic patronage as a matter of immediate priority.

Minister for Education Ruairi Quinn has said he will be establishing a forum to identify how schools can be transferred out of Catholic patronage as a matter of immediate priority.

Addressing managers of the country's Catholic primary schools, Mr Quinn said the forum would identify methods and processes by which Catholic schools could be divested.

He said the forum, which forms part of the new Programme for Government, would focus not on whether this was a good idea but on how to make it happen.
Minister Quinn said the forum would begin work as soon as possible and complete that work in nine months' time.

He said it was essential that much more rapid progress be made than previously, and that the real concrete divesting of schools be achieved.
Minister Quinn received a standing ovation from delegates to the CPMSA delegates at this AGM.

The Catholic bishops have welcomed Minister Quinn's initiative, and, in particular, his commitment to a speedy process.


[post28]

Barbarella
03-11-2011, 05:09 PM
Awesome.

Chalk
03-11-2011, 09:57 PM
WIN!


But, how hard will it be to get it done? I imagine it's quite controversial, no?

ebby
03-11-2011, 11:14 PM
Less controversial now than it used to be. There's still a fervent catholic minority, but the majority of Irish people are more occasional, cultural Catholics than anything else, and the recent on going scandals about the church here have changed people's opinions a lot too.

Faust
03-12-2011, 10:48 PM
Interesting local story that I heard about since I've been back in my hometown these past few months. Apparently after I delivered a fake coming-out speech at the high school I went to, which was all-male, Catholic, military, college-prep, my speech made it to the desk of the Archbishop of St. Paul. Long story short, students there aren't allowed to talk about homosexuality anymore in their senior speeches. Must've touched a nerve with the Catholics, geez.

Volta
03-14-2011, 11:12 AM
My neighbor, Frona (love her name), warned me again of the Catholic's conspiracy to ruin us all. I thought to myself, what would she have done if I said I was Catholic on the spot? Would she have kicked me or something?
I just don't understand the evangelical conspiracy theories against the Catholic church. I mean, it is the church Luther and Henry broke away from. The reason she has a protestant faith to begin with. But I don't think she or.. heck, Sherry Shepherd (on The View, for that matter) would buy it.

ebby
03-14-2011, 11:45 AM
My neighbor, Frona (love her name), warned me again of the Catholic's conspiracy to ruin us all. I thought to myself, what would she have done if I said I was Catholic on the spot? Would she have kicked me or something?
I just don't understand the evangelical conspiracy theories against the Catholic church. I mean, it is the church Luther and Henry broke away from. The reason she has a protestant faith to begin with. But I don't think she or.. heck, Sherry Shepherd (on The View, for that matter) would buy it.

Did you read any of this thread?

Chalk
03-14-2011, 11:55 AM
He doesn't read. It's overrated.

beanstew
04-03-2011, 03:00 PM
Surge in Satanism sparks rise in demand for exorcists, says Catholic Church (http://istyosty.com/t3x) (istyosty-cached Telegraph link)



The web has made it easier than ever before to access information on Devil-worshipping and the occult, experts said.

Exorcism is the subject of a six-day conference being held this week at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University in Rome, which is under the Vatican's authority.

"The internet makes it much easier than in the past to find information about Satanism," said Carlo Climati, a member of the university who specialises in the dangers posed to young people by Satanism.

"In just a few minutes you can contact Satanist groups and research occultism. The conference is not about how to become an exorcist. It's to share information about exorcism, Satanism and sects. It's to give help to families and priests. There is a particular risk for young people who are in difficulties or who are emotionally fragile," said Mr Climati.

ebby
05-24-2011, 02:59 PM
O Hay Catholic missionaries. How're you? Oh, abusing power in Africa, raping and molesting kids and teenagers again? Lovely. Over a 30 year period, and as recently as 5 years ago? Even more lovely. Stay classy you evil cunts.

Prime Time Investigates (our main investigative journalism show) : http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1099077

Two articles from TheJournal.ie: ‘Undoubtedly’ more cases of child sex abuse by missionaries following allegations (http://www.thejournal.ie/catholic-church-faces-new-scandal-over-reports-of-abuse-by-african-missionaries-142576-May2011/)

Honestly, even the concept of "the missions" really bothers me. And I've a great-uncle who was a missionary for years. Basically, it seems to be traveling to a 'primitive' country, and converting them to Catholicism by trading it off with education and infrastructure building.

Lágnætti
05-24-2011, 04:00 PM
Some missionaries don't even build stuff. They just harrass people on buses, like the Mormons around here.

beanstew
05-27-2011, 10:16 AM
Priest Sex-Abuse Case Hits Church of Pope's Paedophile Priests Adviser (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2072613,00.html?xid=rss-world)



(GENOA) The latest sex-abuse case to rock the Catholic Church is unfolding in the archdiocese of an influential Italian Cardinal who has been working with Pope Benedict XVI on reforms to respond to prior scandals of pedophile priests.

Father Riccardo Seppia, a 51-year-old parish priest in the village of Sastri Ponente, near Genoa, was arrested last Friday, May 13, on pedophilia and drug charges. Investigators say that in tapped mobile-phone conversations, Seppia asked a Moroccan drug dealer to arrange sexual encounters with young and vulnerable boys. "I do not want 16-year-old boys but younger. Fourteen-year-olds are O.K. Look for needy boys who have family issues," he allegedly said. Genoa Archbishop Angelo Bagnasco, who is the head of the Italian Bishops Conference, had been working with Benedict to establish a tough new worldwide policy, released this week, on how bishops should handle accusations of priestly sex abuse.

Bagnasco said that when he met the Pope this weekend, he "asked for a particular blessing for my archdiocese" in light of the alleged crimes, adding that "like every father toward a son [feels] great pain in seeing a priest who is not faithful to his vocation."

Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi praised Bagnasco's handling of the Sastri Ponente case, lauding its "timeliness and competence." On Saturday, May 14, the Cardinal visited the Santo Spirito church, where Seppia was the parish priest.

According to investigators, Seppia told a friend a former seminarian and barman who is currently under investigation that the town's malls were the best places to entice minors. In tapped phone conversations the two cursed and swore against God. The priest is charged with having attempted to kiss and touch an underage altar boy and of having exchanged cocaine for sexual intercourse with boys over 18.

Lathan
05-27-2011, 12:38 PM
Fourteen-year-olds are O.K. Look for needy boys who have family issues

That should be tattooed on the fucker's face. Grrr.

Lágnætti
05-27-2011, 02:24 PM
Somebody should translate that to Latin. Given what we've learned over the years via the Murphy and Ryan reports and all the other scandals, it may as well be their official motto.

Lathan
05-27-2011, 02:48 PM
Anno XIIII sunt Olds okay. Quaerite qui pueris egenis family proventus.


Voil.

beanstew
05-31-2011, 03:24 PM
Severed head of patron saint of genital disease on sale (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-13522546)



The severed head of a man said to be the patron saint of genital disease will go on auction in County Meath on Sunday.

The skull is allegedly that of St Vitalis of Assisi, an Italian Benedictine monk from the 14th century.

It belonged to an Anglo-Irish family from County Louth, and is housed in a Queen Anne case dating from the 17th century.

There has been no official verification of the claim.

St Vitalis was born in Umbria, Italy, and is said to have lived an immoral and licentious youth.

In an attempt to atone for his early sins, he later undertook pilgrimages to shrines throughout Europe, eventually entering the Benedictine monastery at Subiaco.

After leaving the monastery, he lived the remainder of his life as a hermit near Assisi.

Mordecai
06-15-2011, 03:54 AM
Oh look, a decent, liberal Catholic priest who defied the archbishop's command not to welcome gays openly.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/06/14/priest_defends_inclusion_of_gays_lesbians/?p1=News_links

How long till defrocking and excommunication?

ebby
07-01-2011, 05:31 PM
RealCatholicTV quizzes people in Dublin about whether they are mass going baptised Catholics.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaGj1rJdPKo

This is actually kinda hilarious, and I'm half wondering if it is actually real, but it probably is.

Barbarella
07-29-2011, 01:44 AM
Miami's Catholic Leaders Accused of Underground Gay Sex Mafia (http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/07/28/Miami_Catholic_Leaders_Accused_of_Underground_Gay_Sex_Mafia/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AdvocatecomDailyNews+%28Advocate.com+Daily+News%29)


One of Florida's most powerful Catholic leaders is being accused of running the Miami Archdiocese like a gay sexual mafia boss.

Gawker reports that a group of Catholics from South Florida calling their organization Christifidelis had launched a major investigation into the activities of Archbishop Emeritus John C. Favalora. In a report from Christifidelis called "Miami Vice," the group found that Favalora was part owner of a company that manufactured an aphrodisiac drink and took trips to Key West with "gay associates."

He also reportedly had sexual relationships with several underlings, including at least two monsignors, a rector, and a former student. The report indicated that many other priests in South Florida are gay and have live-in boyfriends. Some engaged in pedophilia.

Favalora resigned eight months before his 75th birthday, when archbishops routinely retire. Soon after, new archbishop Thomas Wenski was supposedly brought in to "clean up Favalora's mess," a source told Gawker. Many of the 35 priests named in the report had either retired or been reassigned.

MTC
07-31-2011, 05:33 AM
If the Catholic Church is our only hope against evil, as the video claims, we're fucked.

jovana
08-02-2011, 04:30 PM
http://atheistatlarge.org/2011/08/catholic-church-child-protection-chief-caught-with-4000-child-porn-pictures/


A child protection official for the Catholic Church has been caught with 4,000 pictures of child porn.

Father-of-four Christopher Jarvis was arrested after uploading pictures of children being abused to a website.

Married Jarvis, 49, a former social worker, was employed by the church following sex scandals about pervert priests.

His job was to monitor church groups to ensure paedophiles did not gain access to children in the church’s congregations.

But he was caught by police in March with more than 4,000 child porn images on his home computer and his work laptop.

He admitted 12 counts of making, *possessing and distributing indecent *images when he appeared before *magistrates in Plymouth and is likely to face jail when he returns to court for sentencing next month.

Jarvis, who has been sacked from his job as child safeguarding *officer, worked the Diocese of *Plymouth for nine years.

Church spokesman *David Pond said: “Mr Jarvis was suspended from his position as soon as the diocese became aware in March of the police investigation.

“The Bishop took that action and since then the Church has worked closely with the police.”

Barbarella
08-02-2011, 06:15 PM
Disgusting.

ebby
09-03-2011, 01:50 PM
So, the rage levels are rising again as the Vatican has issued its official reponse (http://www.thejournal.ie/topic/cloyne/) to the Cloyne Report (http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0713/cloynetracker.html) (one of three(?) different reports into the abuse endemic to the catholic church in this country, which also found that the Bishop in question deliberately misled investigations (http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0713/cloyne.html) into allegations of abuse as recently as 2009, amongst other delightful bits of information.)

Well, in short, the Vatican's reply is somewhere between "Lolz, sorry, but totes not our fault" to "that would be an ecumenical matter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvvwNR3vF44)".

The ever wonderful Colm O'Gorman (http://twitter.com/#!/Colmogorman) (current Executive Director of Amnesty International Ireland and founder of the One In Four charity - so named as that's how prevalent child sexual abuse is in Ireland.) has been picking apart the report on twitter, as has Abie Philbin Bowman (http://twitter.com/#!/AbiePB), both of whom I would recommend following if you're in any way interested in the story.


The Cloyne report, published on 13 July, outlined how 19 priests abused dozens of children between 1996 and 2009 and it accused those in authority at the diocese of gross negligence for not doing enough to address the issue.

beanstew
09-24-2011, 11:49 PM
Catholics cannot accept gay marriage, pope says (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/24/us-pope-germany-idUSTRE78K2ME20110924)



(Reuters) - Pope Benedict said on Saturday the Catholic Church could not accept gay marriage and urged young people to root out evil in society and shun a "lukewarm" faith that damages their Church.

The 84-year-old pope ended the third day in his homeland with a rally for more about 30,000 young people at a fairground outside the southern city of Freiburg, a Catholic area where he received the warmest welcome of his trip so far.

"The world in which we live, in spite of its technical progress, does not seem to be getting any better," he told the young people. "There is still war and terror, hunger and disease, bitter poverty and merciless oppression."

He urged them to root out all forms of evil in society and not to be "lukewarm Christians," saying that lack of commitment to faith did more damage to their Church than its sworn enemies.

Young people in the crowd cheered as he spoke.

"The Church is shown very negatively in the media these days so it is important for us young people to see we can also be proud of the Church, and the Church itself is not bad even if some people have let it down," said Kathrin Doerr, 26, who attended the youth rally.

Earlier, at a meeting with Orthodox Christian leaders, Benedict spoke out against abortion, euthanasia and gay marriage.

"We as Christians attach great importance to defending the integrity and the uniqueness of marriage between one man and one woman from any kind of misinterpretation," he said.

COMMUNISM'S ACID RAIN HURT FAITH

On the penultimate day of his trip, the pope straddled his homeland's religious and geographical divisions, praising the faithful for enduring communism's "acid rain" effect in former East Germany and then addressing cheering Catholic crowds in the west.

At a mass in the medieval main square during a subdued visit to the city of Erfurt, where only about seven percent of the people are Catholic, he praised eastern Germans who stayed loyal to the Church during oppressive years under Nazism and communism.

"You have had to endure first a brown and then a red dictatorship, which acted on the Christian faith like acid rain," he told the crowd from the altar, set against a hill dominated by Erfurt's cathedral and another Catholic church.

About two hours before the morning mass in Erfurt, a man fired an air gun at security staff at an Erfurt checkpoint in an apparent protest against the strict crowd-control measures, police said. The Vatican said the pope was never in any danger.

Benedict held a surprise meeting on Friday evening in Erfurt with victims of sexual abuse by priests. Church officials said on Saturday there were three men and two women present, chosen from many victims around Germany who had asked to meet the pope.

"The atmosphere of the meeting was rather relaxed," Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi told a news conference. "It was very important that the Pope expressed he shares in the pain the victims suffered and that the Church will do everything to prevent that happening again in the future."

About 700 Germans have filed for compensation for abuse by priests and other Church personnel. A record 181,000 Germans left the Church last year, many in protest at the abuse scandal.

(Writing by Philip Pullella and Tom Heneghan; Editing by Tim Pearce)

Lágnætti
10-18-2011, 09:23 PM
This is a fun one: Spanish Catholic Church ran baby-stealing operation through the Franco years and beyond (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15335899)


Spain's stolen babies

How many? More than 900 cases are being investigated, but new cases are still coming to light - lawyers say the total could reach 300,000

How long? Over a period of 40-50 years, beginning under Franco, up to the 1990s

Who benefited? Initially the Fascists by bringing up the children of their enemies - later children were taken from parents judged to be morally or economically deficient and placed with approved Catholic, often childless, families

Why did it take so long to expose? The Church and medical profession are highly respected, and Spanish law does not require the biological mother's name on the birth certificate



n 1971 Manoli, who was 23 at the time and not long married, gave birth to what she was told was a healthy baby boy, but he was immediately taken away for what were called routine tests.

Nine interminable hours passed. "Then, a nun, who was also a nurse, coldly informed me that my baby had died," she says.

They would not let her have her son's body, nor would they tell her when the funeral would be.

Did she not think to question the hospital staff?

"Doctors, nuns?" she says, almost in horror. "I couldn't accuse them of lying. This was Franco's Spain. A dictatorship. Even now we Spaniards tend not to question authority."

The scale of the baby trafficking was unknown until this year, when two men - Antonio Barroso and Juan Luis Moreno, childhood friends from a seaside town near Barcelona - discovered that they had been bought from a nun. Their parents weren't their real parents, and their life had been built on a lie.

Juan Luis Moreno discovered the truth when the man he had been brought to call "father" was on his deathbed.

Antonio Barroso and Juan Luis Moreno Antonio Barroso and Juan Luis Moreno took their story to the papers - and opened the floodgates

"He said, 'I bought you from a priest in Zaragoza'. He said that Antonio had been bought as well."

The pair were hurt and angry. They say they felt like two dogs that had been bought at a pet shop. An adoption lawyer they turned to for advice said he came across cases like theirs all the time.

Collaboration with fascist regimes, abuse of power for profit and child abuse: it's just getting tedious at this point.

Chalk
10-20-2011, 09:59 PM
^^That's really fucked up. There is certainly no surprise that the Catholic Church always collaborates with the regimes in power, well, the ones that benifits them. In Argentina something similar happened during the dirty war. Except the children belonged to "left-wing activists" ie anyone who questioned the regime, who were either killed or "disappeared" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_flights). The church wasn't directly involved in the kidnappings, but they were collaborating with the military junta. Only one church official convicted so far, but the church had a presence nonetheless in advising and highly likely working as whistleblower/agents for the regime. However, there were some, but note young priests, who were involved with and helped the guerilla fight the regime.

ebby
10-20-2011, 10:30 PM
That baby stealing & selling story from Spain is horrific isn't it? My mother was aghast - and she's not someone I normally hear giving out about the Church at all, but she was so utterly shocked and appalled by it.

Potentially as many as 300,000 babies stolen from their mothers and sold to "decent" families instead?

I have no words for how evil that institution is.

Barbarella
11-06-2011, 09:35 PM
The Catholic Church Has Been Quietly Selling Porn In Germany (http://jezebel.com/5856855/the-catholic-church-has-been-quietly-selling-porn-in-germany)


The Catholic Church is no stranger to preaching one thing and doing another. There are, of course, the recent sexual abuse cases, and who can forget the Crusades? Now we have a new—less egregious but still annoying—violation to add to the list! Here goes: It turns out that the Catholic Church in Germany owns a publishing house that sells pornography, and now that people have found out they're trying to claim it was all a big misunderstanding! Of course it was.

The publisher in question is Weltbild, a very large German media company (it's second only to Amazon in size) that has been wholly owned by the Catholic Church for 30 years. It's recently been discovered that the company has long published some very adult-sounding books:

Weltbild's massive assortment of titles available to customers online includes some 2,500 "erotic" books with unmistakably lewd titles including Call Me Slut!, Take Me Here, Take Me Now! and Lawyer's Whore, to name a few. The publisher's website also pictures the titles' lascivious dust jackets that feature colour photographs of scantily clad women in high heels and erotic underwear.

Oh, and let's not forget about another of their books called Sluts Boarding School. How very…Catholic? Mmm, not so much. The Church—officially, anyway!—is no great fan of pornography. In fact, it's considered a "grave offense" and the Church says, "Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials." Well, that certainly makes a compelling case for why the Church should NOT be paying to publish books like Lawyer's Whore. And yet, they are!

Still, we can't expect that these guys are going to reverse hundreds of years of precedent and come right out and admit they've done something wrong. No, no. They've done just what you'd expect: duck and deny.

Carel Haff, Weltbild's managing director, was quoted as saying that the revelations had provoked "a very intense and critical dialogue" within the company. He said discussions were under way about possibly limiting the assortment of titles that would be available in future.

Are we to understand that the fact that 2,500 of their titles contain erotic material comes as a revelation to them? It seems like it should have dawned on them earlier that a) they publish books with titles like Call Me Slut!, and b) this is in direct conflict with the teachings of their owner, the Catholic Church. So what does the Church itself have to say about this hot mess?

Catholic bishops responded with a statement claiming that "a filtering system failure" at the publishing house had allowed the books to stray on to the market. "We will put a stop to the distribution of possibly pornographic content in future."

Ahh, the old "filtering system failure" excuse. Sure, except for one small problem: this issue has been brought to the bishops' attention before. As Bernhard Müller, the editor of PUR, a Catholic magazine, explains,

The sudden proclaimed astonishment of many church leaders that pornographic material is being distributed by their publishing house, is play acting—bad play acting. Believers have been complaining to their bishops about this for years.

In fact, it's been reported that in 2009 the Catholic Church even tried to sell Weltbild to "clear itself of potential embarrassment over the sale of porn." But apparently they couldn't get the price they wanted so they took the company off the market. God forbid they should lose money in the name of doing what they believe is right!

Lágnætti
12-16-2011, 01:35 PM
The Dutch just produced a damning report about abuse in Catholic and other institutions. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16216174)


Tens of thousands of children have suffered sexual abuse in Dutch Catholic institutions since 1945, a report says.

The report by an independent commission said Catholic officials had failed to tackle the widespread abuse at schools, seminaries and orphanages.

But the report also found that one in five children who attended an institution suffered abuse - regardless of whether it was Catholic.

Allegations at a Catholic school in the east Netherlands triggered the inquiry.

The commission, which began work in August 2010, sought to uncover what had gone on and how it had happened, and examined what kind of justice should be offered to victims.

It studied 1,800 complaints of abuse at Catholic institutions, identifying 800 alleged perpetrators, just over 100 of whom are still alive.

It also conducted a broader survey of more than 34,000 people, to gain a more comprehensive picture of the scale and nature of abuse suffered by Dutch minors.

The report estimates that 10,000-20,000 minors were abused in the care of Catholic institutions between 1945 and 1981, when the number of Church-run homes dropped. In the years between 1981 and 2011, several more thousands suffered at the hands of priests and others working for the Church.

Most of the cases involved mild to moderate abuse, such as touching, but the report estimated there were "several thousand" instances of rape.

ebby
12-21-2011, 12:59 PM
Ah, so that's what a Real Man is:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/files/2011/12/realmen.jpeg (http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/12/21/the-toxic-solution/)

Yuki
12-21-2011, 01:35 PM
real man= unscrupulous child molester?

sara
12-21-2011, 03:24 PM
He's not a kiddie-fiddler, he's just sexually attracted to young males. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/12/20/nl-lahey-sentencing-1220.html)
Apparently he's now apologized for what he's done. Oh good for you :rolleyes:. It doesn't change anything though.

ebby
01-09-2012, 10:18 PM
The pope said today that gay marriage was one of several threats to the traditional family that undermined "the future of humanity itself. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/09/us-pope-gay-idUSTRE8081RM20120109)"

Yes. Gay Marriage will destroy humanity's future.

Ryan
01-09-2012, 10:24 PM
Well, something needs to put it out of its misery.

Faust
01-09-2012, 10:30 PM
Archbishop Nienstedt orders Minnesota priests to support or stay silent on anti-gay marriage amendment (http://www.americanindependent.com/208189/archbishop-orders-minnesota-priests-to-support-or-stay-silent-on-anti-gay-marriage-amendment)

Having had personal experience with this guy, I think it's pretty suffice to say he's a cock. And a pretty unpopular one, according to most of the Catholics I grew up with.

sara
01-10-2012, 05:21 AM
The pope said today that gay marriage was one of several threats to the traditional family that undermined "the future of humanity itself. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/09/us-pope-gay-idUSTRE8081RM20120109)"

Yes. Gay Marriage will destroy humanity's future.

this from the man in a gold dress.

Ryan
03-08-2012, 03:36 PM
This is disgusting.


Francis House, a homeless shelter in Sacramento, has had its funding pulled from the city's Catholic Diocese because its new director supports same-sex marriage and abortion rights, the Sacramento Bee reports:

In a letter last month, the diocese's director of social services said the Rev. Faith Whitmore's public statements on the issues clash with the teachings of the Catholic Church. Therefore, said the Rev. Michael Kiernan, the social services director, it is "impossible for the diocese to continue funding Francis House" as part of its annual Catholic Appeal.

Each morning, dozens of poor people line up at Francis House, in Sacramento's homeless services epicenter on C and 14th streets, for help with basic services such as housing and transportation. Now in its 42nd year, the organization is one of the largest homeless services agencies in the Sacramento region, serving upward of 25,000 people. It has an annual budget of about $500,000.

For at least two decades, Francis House has received annual donations from the diocese ranging from $7,500 to $10,000, said Michael Miiller, a member of the agency's corporate advisory board.

Source (http://www.towleroad.com/2012/03/catholic-church-dumps-homeless-shelter-in-sacramento-because-director-supports-gay-marriage-abortion.html)

SweetPea
03-08-2012, 03:50 PM
Wow. How... Christ-like... *eye roll*

Sacramento has a very real and very large homeless population (since surrounding cities bus their homeless into Sac) and hearing this breaks my heart. I wouldn't be surprised if the RCC has been looking for any excuse to stop funding the Francis House. They have always been one of the first group to help those in need. I'm not a fan of Catholic orgs but I know a few people who have been helped by the Francis House and they are very lovely people who just want to do what's right for their fellow man/woman.

*shakes head* How sad.

beanstew
04-02-2012, 12:50 PM
Catholic priest projected gay porn to ‘horrified’ primary school parents (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/04/02/catholic-priest-projects-gay-porn-to-horrified-primary-school-parents/)


A Catholic priest in Northern Ireland is under investigation after accidentally displaying a series of gay porn images to parents at a primary school meeting.

Father Martin McVeigh said he had no knowledge of the gay pictures that were displayed instead of the Powerpoint instructions on Holy Communion he had been intending to project.

The 26 parents of pupils St Mary’s School in Pomeroy, Co Tyrone who attended the meeting last week said the priest had inserted a memory stick into a computer linked up to the school projector system but rather than Eucharistic guidance for children, they witnessed graphic images of men.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland said there was no immediate evidence a crime had taken place.

A statement issued by the parents present said Father McVeigh was “visibly shaken and flustered” after the Powerpoint presentation went awry.

It continued: “He gave no explanation or apology to the group and bolted out of the room. The co-ordinator and the teachers then continued with the presentation.

“The meeting continued in his absence, however, the parents who viewed the pictures were horrified and distracted.

“Twenty minutes later he returned, he continued with the meeting and wrapped up by saying that the children get lots of money for their Holy Communion and should consider giving some of it to the church.”

Cardinal Seán Brady, head of the Catholic Church in Ireland, said: “Inappropriate imagery was inadvertently shown by a priest at the beginning of a Powerpoint presentation, causing concern to those present.

“This was immediately removed from the screen.

“The priest has stated that he had no knowledge of the offending imagery. The archdiocese immediately sought the advice of the PSNI who indicated that, on the basis of the evidence available, no crime had been committed.

“The priest is co-operating with an investigation of the matter on the part of the archdiocese.”

Fr McVeigh told the Ulster Herald: “I don’t know how it happened but I know what happened. There are people making innuendoes who weren’t even there but in this day and age these stories grow.”

He has added that the memory stick was owned by the parish and used by other people.

The statement on behalf of the parents added: “The questions that remain unanswered are the fact that Fr McVeigh is still saying Mass and has not been suspended pending an investigation. In any other responsible organisation this would have been the first action.

“The parents are enraged that Fr McVeigh has been entrusted with the pastoral care of their children however, he has given no explanation for why he left the room for 20 minutes after the incident or no apology to the offended child, parents or teachers.”

ebby
04-06-2012, 11:38 AM
Yeay! It's Sexy Jesus Day!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/417209_382373251792305_171173612912271_1390516_210691501_n.jpg

ebby
04-06-2012, 10:08 PM
So, I had a little thing to do today in a very small town out in the countryside. There was no-where to get food, as the only places there that served food were the pubs, and it being Good Friday, all pubs have to close for the day. The joys of the hold that Catholicism still has on Irish law. No alcohol is allowed to be sold or served, with a few exceptions - one being the theatre.

(Catholics are also supposed to not eat meat on Good Friday too, so of course, there's always BBQs with plenty of alcohol on that day here instead.)

Barbarella
04-06-2012, 11:23 PM
^ Is it like that in the bigger cities too?

ebby
04-06-2012, 11:40 PM
^ Is it like that in the bigger cities too?

For alcohol - yes - all the pubs have to close for the whole day in the whole country. No off-licence sales, or sales of alcohol in shops or supermarkets or anything like that. It's a mini prohibition for one day a year that's written into the alcohol licensing laws.

Barbarella
04-06-2012, 11:48 PM
Oh my. There must have been a big spike in alcohol sales yesterday.

ebby
04-07-2012, 12:03 AM
Oh my. There must have been a big spike in alcohol sales yesterday.

Oh yes. The thursday before is one of the biggest days for alcohol sales, as everyone stocks up and has a drunken bbq to spite the stupid law. Theatre shows get sold out, as theatre has an exemption to the regular licensing laws, as do trains and planes.

Barbarella
04-07-2012, 01:12 AM
I'm having a Jameson tonight to protest the alcohol licensing laws! ;)

The Seaward
04-07-2012, 01:18 AM
I'll toss back a Guinness and a fifth of Jameson in solidarity as well! ;) Sláinte!

Barbarella
04-24-2012, 05:32 PM
Good luck with that! ;)

The Catholic League Takes On Jon Stewart (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/23/the-catholic-league-takes-on-jon-stewart/)


Funnyman and longtime host of Comedy Central’s only watchable show next to the Colbert Report, Jon Stewart, appears to be this week’s recipient of the Catholic League’s never-ending assembly line of feigned outrage and hateful ignorance.

In addition to keeping Americans with more than two functioning brain cells sane four nights a week as host of the Daily Show with Jon Stewart, the jersey-born quipster still makes time to perform stand-up all over the country. This past weekend, Stewart performed two sold-out nights in Florida, where he essentially delighted Floridians by making fun of Florida. You know, how Florida is slowly becoming the new Texas of the free world but with melanoma and white shoes. At one point during his performance, the king of political satire directly mentioned the Catholic League, which apparently was important enough to get repeated in a glowing review in the Tampa Bay Times. The critic wrote that Stewart brought up the fact that the Catholic League has “boycotted” Stewart over his recent segment about women placing a manger between their legs to prevent medical professionals from probing into them unnecessarily. Stewart, who almost always dissimulates his political convictions to maintain the satirical premise of his show, sometimes like to elevate the national conversation with a little seriousness. With that in mind, in an apparent “moment of seriousness” Stewart essentially said he couldn’t care less about the Catholic League’s boycott and what they think of him, which in turn, has somehow made the Catholic League think they have actually gotten to the comic.

“I’m not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance,” said Stewart during his performance at the Clearwater event

This made the Christmas lovers feel very validated, and they released this statement earlier today:

Nice to know the Catholic League is on Jon Stewart’s mind. Unfortunately for him, we’re going to hang around for weeks, contacting his sponsors and religious leaders from all the major religions. We’re sending them the “vagina manger” picture he is so proud of, asking everyone to pressure Comedy Central into getting Stewart to apologize.

We really don’t need to boycott anyone as the picture is so indefensible—putting a nativity scene ornament in between the legs of a naked woman—that no one save the maliciously sick would even try to defend it.

The good news is that Stewart lashed out at us in a serious moment—the e-mails that are pouring into Comedy Central are obviously getting to him. We’ll see who is branded as “ignorant” when our campaign is done. (Source:Mediaite)

Really, Catholic League? Have you not seen how this man wonderfully yet politely eviscerates any group or individual who’s clearly in the wrong yet remains committed to attacking him? If not, I have two words for the Catholic League to take into serious consideration: Jim Cramer.

ebby
05-23-2012, 01:31 AM
9 year old girl who was abused and raped, had a life saving abortion in Brazil.

Catholic church excommunicated the doctors and the girl's mother.

Of course. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/brazil-rocked-by-abortion-for-9yearold-rape-victim-1640165.html

rapist stepfather? No big deal according to the archbishop.

Barbarella
05-28-2012, 08:57 PM
Of course not, they love child rape! :rolleyes:

ebby
06-18-2012, 05:11 PM
THE DEVIL MADE THEM DO IT. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/18/us-vatican-leaks-idUSBRE85H13Y20120618)


No, really, that's basically the gist of the latest statement from Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone (the #2 in the Vatican, apparently).

Also included this gem of a line about the media: ""They (journalists) continue to invent fairytales and repeat legends," he said"

BWHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Barbarella
06-19-2012, 01:40 AM
[banghead] [banghead] [banghead]

Mordecai
06-19-2012, 02:24 AM
¡ El diablo !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftUR6AFTNMA

Mordecai
07-12-2012, 11:57 PM
Wooo.


The Catholic Church's Fading Influence in Poland

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/influence-of-catholic-church-on-the-decline-in-poland-a-843694.html

Just past the Polish border, passengers traveling by train from Berlin to Warsaw can see Jesus. He is 36-meters (118 feet) tall, made of concrete, and towers over the surrounding fields near the town of Swiebodzin, a gilded crown perched nobly on his head. His gaze is directed over the Recaro plant, which makes car seats and is the region's biggest employer, and toward the setting sun. His outstretched arms seem to suggest that he wishes to take the Western heathens into his heart.

The plaque at the base of the giant religious statue says that Jesus Christ is the true king of Poland and will rule for eternity. It is not for nothing that the country is, in the eyes of the church at least, Europe's most Catholic nation.
Yet despite the monumental redeemer, Swiebodzin has not become a pilgrimage site. "The statue has not triggered a tourism boom yet," confirms Waldemar Roszczuk, editor-in-chief of the city's newspaper and publisher of a regional Internet publication.

Much to the annoyance of Father Sylwester Zawadzki, who is responsible for the socialist-realist version of Christ. That, in any case, is what Roszczuk reports. Christ's realm is not necessarily of this world, he says, at least in Swiebodzin.

"The majority of the population is against this monument, but no one says so openly," he says. Most locals, he suggests, are concerned about the baptism or first communion of their children and "would rather not spoil things with Father Zawadzki."

Some 95 percent of all Poles still say that they are Catholic. Yet loyalty to the church is waning. Even the conservative Catholic publicist Tomasz Terlikowski estimates the true number of devout Catholics at little more than 20 percent. "We Poles like to proclaim our Catholicism," he says, but the reality looks quite different.

Quickly Declining Influence

Only slightly more than 44 percent of young people say they go to church on Sundays, compared with 62 percent in 1992. Forty-two percent admit that they do not observe all religious commandments. Hardly anyone pays attention to rules about things like sexual abstinence before marriage anymore. The number of illegal abortions runs into the hundreds of thousands every year. In addition, four-fifths of Poles are bothered by the fact that the church regularly intervenes in politics.

"With a bombastic monument like the one in Swiebodzin, local church leaders are merely trying to conceal the fact that their influence is in fact declining," says Tadeusz Barto. "The church could be completely marginalized within 10 years," says Barto, who holds a doctorate in philosophy and was once a monk.

It is a development that stands in stark contrast to the unique role the Catholic Church as long played in Poland -- as a kind of protector of the nation. This relationship dates back to the time when Poland was partitioned. In the 18th century, Protestant Prussia, the Orthodox Russian Empire and Austria divided up the old aristocratic republic amongst themselves. The Catholic faith served as the glue binding together Poles in the divided regions, and the church kept the idea of reunification alive.

That dream only materialized between the two world wars. The so-called Second Republic was a multi-religious entity that consisted of Jews, Protestants and Orthodox Christians -- and only about 60 percent Catholics. Ironically, it wasn't until the Communist People's Republic was established after 1945, with the help of Josef Stalin, the renegade son of a priest, that Poland became almost exclusively Catholic. The Protestant Germans were driven out after the Nazi occupiers had almost completely exterminated the Jewish population.

Until 1989, the church portrayed itself as a national bulwark against communism, which was perceived as "un-Polish." It helped organize the resistance movement among dockworkers in the 1970s and '80s, it offered dissidents protection and it produced a modern martyr, Jerzy Popieluszko.

A Catholic priest who was associated with the Solidarity trade union and a confidante of strike leader Lech Walesa, Popieluszko was kidnapped and beaten by the secret police in 1984. He was bound and thrown into a Vistula River reservoir, where he was later found dead.

Failed to Keep Up

After the fall of communism, politicians of all stripes were careful not to lock horns with the Catholic leadership. The church was given priority when it came to returning expropriated property, the episcopate received favorable tax treatment and religion was reinstated as a required subject in schools.

Still, the church has failed to keep up with the modern age, says Barto. Many of his fellow Poles agree.

After joining the European Union, Poland turned to the West and embraced the Western lifestyle more than almost any other country. Nowadays, Polish women dream of careers, self-fulfillment and children. Hundreds of thousands of young Poles live together without being married. In booming cities like Warsaw and Poznan, gays and lesbians live their lives as openly as in Berlin or Madrid.

"More and more taboos are falling by the wayside. But the church reacts by hardening its positions even further," says Barto.

He experienced this stubbornness himself. He joined the Dominican Order at 19 and was ordained as a priest. But then he became a contrarian, writing for the daily newspaper Gazeta Wyborcza, which is considered hostile to the church. He believes that the church must break open its hierarchies and soften its dogmatic positions. The Poles made great sacrifices when they shook off communism and introduced the market economy, says Barto, but not so that they could now allow quixotic clerics to tell them what to do.

In many instances, mandatory celibacy for priests has become a sham. "Nowadays, even truly religious Poles think it's ridiculous that priests are still disguising their concubines as housekeepers," says Barto.

Series of Suicides

The contrarian monk removed his robes in 2007. Today, he gives lectures at the University of Warsaw and lives in a carefully renovated house in the upscale neighborhood of Saska Kepa. "The Poles are becoming more courageous and are no longer holding back with their criticism of the clergy," he says.

Janusz Palikot and his party are the political beneficiaries of this discontent. The political up-and-comer, akin to Pirate Party politicians in other European countries, promptly captured 10 percent of votes in the last election. He benefits mostly from the fact that the church is trying to retain its dominant role, especially in politics.

One recent example was provided by the controversial burial of former President Lech Kaczynski in Wawel Castle in Krakow after he died in the horrific 2010 plane crash. The castle is a kind of Polish Valhalla, where kings and heroes of the independence movement are buried. Many feel it is not the right place for a recent president with only a modest list of achievements while in office -- and voters flocked to Palikot's party as a result.

A series of suicides among priests has also dealt a disastrous blow to the image of the church. In the last six years, eight priests have taken poison, hanged themselves or jumped out a window in the deeply religious Tarnow Diocese in the country's far south. The last suicide occurred at the end of April, in Stary Sacz. The church hierarchy, it would seem, is no longer capable of addressing the spiritual needs of its own priests.
The church is short on answers to the challenges it faces in booming Poland. The priests routinely react to job market volatility and long working hours, emigration and return, stress and careers by invoking earlier, more pious times.

"In reality," says former monk Barto, "most clergymen are preoccupied with internal power struggles. If there is anyone who is especially ill-suited to teaching people ethical behavior, it's a scheming church leader."

Translated from the German by Christopher Sultan

ebby
07-21-2012, 01:48 PM
The Vatican just stripped the Pontifical Catholic University of Peru of its right to call itself a Catholic or Pontifical university: Vatican censures Peruvian university (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0721/breaking12.html)

But it hasn't given the reason why this has happened:


The Vatican said today that the break came after the university had several times unilaterally modified its statutes and had "gravely prejudiced the interests of the Church". It did not elaborate.

Apparently, the university in question is one of the more liberal leaning, progressive institutions in Catholicism.

SweetPea
08-30-2012, 10:37 PM
Get those barf-bags ready... maybe pad your forehead, too...

http://gawker.com/5939320/prominent-catholic-friar-on-poor-guy-sandusky-a-lot-of-cases-the-youngster-is-the-seducer


Father Benedict Groeschel, a prominent friar, television host, and director of the Office for Spiritual Development for the Catholic Archdiocese of New York, gave an interview to the National Catholic Register this week. It's been taken down — why? Probably because Groeschel claimed that "in a lot of cases" of abuse, "the youngster... is the seducer." And expressed sympathy with Jerry Sandusky.

Renew America's Matt C. Abbott grabbed the interview before it was taken down:

[Interviewer]: Part of your work here at Trinity has been working with priests involved in abuse, no?

[Father Groeschel]: A little bit, yes; but you know, in those cases, they have to leave. And some of them profoundly — profoundly — penitential, horrified. People have this picture in their minds of a person planning to — a psychopath. But that's not the case. Suppose you have a man having a nervous breakdown, and a youngster comes after him. A lot of the cases, the youngster — 14, 16, 18 — is the seducer.

[Interviewer]: Why would that be?

[Father Greoschel]: Well, it's not so hard to see — a kid looking for a father and didn't have his own — and they won't be planning to get into heavy-duty sex, but almost romantic, embracing, kissing, perhaps sleeping but not having intercourse or anything like that.

It's an understandable thing, and you know where you find it, among other clergy or important people; you look at teachers, attorneys, judges, social workers. Generally, if they get involved, it's heterosexually, and if it's a priest, he leaves and gets married — that's the usual thing — and gets a dispensation. A lot of priests leave quickly, get civilly married and then apply for the dispensation, which takes about three years.

But there are the relatively rare cases where a priest is involved in a homosexual way with a minor. I think the statistic I read recently in a secular psychology review was about 2%. Would that be true of other clergy? Would it be true of doctors, lawyers, coaches?

Here's this poor guy — [Penn State football coach Jerry] Sandusky — it went on for years. Interesting: Why didn't anyone say anything? Apparently, a number of kids knew about it and didn't break the ice. Well, you know, until recent years, people did not register in their minds that it was a crime. It was a moral failure, scandalous; but they didn't think of it in terms of legal things.

If you go back 10 or 15 years ago with different sexual difficulties — except for rape or violence — it was very rarely brought as a civil crime. Nobody thought of it that way. Sometimes statutory rape would be — but only if the girl pushed her case. Parents wouldn't touch it. People backed off, for years, on sexual cases. I'm not sure why.

I think perhaps part of the reason would be an embarrassment, that it brings the case out into the open, and the girl's name is there, or people will figure out what's there, or the youngster involved — you know, it's not put in the paper, but everybody knows; they're talking about it.

At this point, (when) any priest, any clergyman, any social worker, any teacher, any responsible person in society would become involved in a single sexual act — not necessarily intercourse — they're done. And I'm inclined to think, on their first offense, they should not go to jail because their intention was not committing a crime.

[Renew America, NYDN]

*VOMIT*

Mordecai
08-30-2012, 11:04 PM
AHHHHHHHH.

AHHHHHHHH

The Onion has come to life once again. http://www.theonion.com/articles/pope-forgives-molested-children,101/

SweetPea
08-31-2012, 07:23 PM
UPDATE: Massive dickhole priest "apologizes" for being a child-rape-apologist...
http://gma.yahoo.com/catholic-tv-star-rev-benedict-groeschel-defends-child-145215741--abc-news-topstories.html

He mind wasn't clear... yeah, I'm sure that's what happened...


"I apologize for my comments," it said. "I did not intend to blame the victim. A priest (or anyone else) who abuses a minor is always wrong and is always responsible. My mind and my way of expressing myself are not as clear as they used to be. I have spent my life trying to help others the best that I could. I deeply regret any harm I have caused to anyone."

Barbarella
08-31-2012, 07:36 PM
That almost sounds sincere.

ebby
11-22-2012, 09:17 PM
Need a laugh? Take a read of the latest issue of Ireland's Catholic free newsletter Alive! : http://www.alive.ie/uploads/6/5/1/1/6511516/alive_nov_12.pdf

It's hilarious. Liberal rights = tyranny! Giving children rights = forcible adoptions! UN Convention on the Rights Of The Child = "a charter for child predators of every sort to exploit children and teenagers"! Science needs God! How we dress on Sundays matter! A priest putting 'views' before Church teaching!


These people are absolutely mental.

edit: omg. There's a Kid's Corner. It's just awful.


http://www.unforumzed.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1586&d=1353619234

Andrew
11-23-2012, 10:40 AM
what on earth is that colouring picture?

anyway, it's still hilarious that modern day catholics beleive all that shit.

fox in socks
11-23-2012, 02:19 PM
"polished"=unrealistic expectations of ones ability to be "good" resulting in deep feelings of guilt that manifest in self-loathing and the need for intense therapy to sort 1/8 of it out. yay jesus!

other pete
01-28-2013, 12:42 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBqCVD0CIAE_Uwl.jpg

:/

beanstew
02-11-2013, 11:15 AM
Pope resigns – live reaction (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/11/pope-resigns-live-reaction)

Malike-pakile
02-11-2013, 11:15 AM
The Emperor is resigning!

http://mazedlx.net/wp-content/uploads/emperor.jpg

ebby
02-11-2013, 11:22 AM
Apparently a pope has only resigned once before, back in the 1400s. This is indeed bizarre. I wonder what his real reason is.

Mordecai
02-11-2013, 11:36 AM
This is cray-cray! What is that old Nazi up to?

Morrison
02-11-2013, 11:53 AM
I think he's pregnant.

Stone
02-11-2013, 11:54 AM
He must be underpaid.

beanstew
02-11-2013, 12:01 PM
This isn't the first time a Pope has resigned, notes Alex Fenton-Thomas. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/11/pope-resigns-live-reaction#block-5118d7a595cb1cdb50b9eb36)


The best known example involved Pope Celestine V in 1294. After only five months as the Bishop of Rome, he issued a solemn decree declaring it possible that a pope can resign and then promptly did so. He then lived the rest of his days as a hermit and was later canonised.

His papal decree ended any debate over whether a pope can justify standing down during his lifetime.


What an organisation!

Lágnætti
02-11-2013, 12:23 PM
This is cray-cray! What is that old Nazi up to?

He wants to spend more time listening to Skrewdriver albums with his family?

Banjee
02-11-2013, 01:33 PM
I'm calling a sex-tape. I have a feeling that the Pope's poonanny will be making the rounds on Instagram pretty soon.

entropy
02-11-2013, 02:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBlFk_oKKJU

Autumn
02-11-2013, 04:59 PM
Apparently a pope has only resigned once before, back in the 1400s. This is indeed bizarre. I wonder what his real reason is.

Yeah, I'm not buying the health reasons bullshit. John Paul II poped that shit until he was practically a corpse. Health reasons my ass.

Barbarella
02-11-2013, 05:55 PM
Was he caught tapping his foot in an airport bathroom stall?

Dan
02-11-2013, 06:11 PM
I think he wants to still be around to influence the choice of his successor. Even though he won't take part in the next conclave, he will still be influential. He know enough shit about everyone to be able to sway the vote towards a more conservative candidate, and furthermore, until he dies, the next pope will have a hard time steering the church towards a new direction.

SparkleMotion
02-11-2013, 08:10 PM
I'm thinking it's either a scandal of epic proportions or dementia. I'm not saying that to be funny. That's the only health reason I can think of that would make a pope step down.

Mordecai
02-11-2013, 11:01 PM
Maybe cancer? I don't think he gives a fuck about scandals.

ebby
02-12-2013, 11:43 AM
I'm actually way more interested in post Feb 20th. When he is no longer Pope with whatever diplomatic immunity that entails, can he be arrested for covering up decades of child rape?

Mordecai
02-12-2013, 11:59 AM
I'm actually way more interested in post Feb 20th. When he is no longer Pope with whatever diplomatic immunity that entails, can he be arrested for covering up decades of child rape?

Don't worry, he's still a citizen of Vatican City, which is a sovereign nation that doesn't have to follow those silly rules. He plans to live out the rest of his years in a cloister there.

Brian
02-12-2013, 08:17 PM
Has there been any new info uncovered since he became pope? His involvement in the cover-up was pretty common knowledge pre-papacy, no? And he wasn't under indictment then.

Steve SFM
02-13-2013, 07:37 PM
He wants to spend more time listening to Skrewdriver albums with his family?

;l

I think Dan hit it on the nose. That was my first thought when I heard the news; his health genuinely is poor, and he wants to make absolutely sure that the Church remains in far-right, liberation theology-squashing, and child rape-denying hands after he goes to his reward.

Dan
02-14-2013, 05:50 PM
I have to say, though, that I've been reading on the papabili, and from what I can tell there simply aren't any liberal cardinals left. Everyone who is eligible at this point has been elevated by either JP2 or Ratzy, and they're all staunch social conservatives who more or less frown upon Vatican II. The last time around, there were factions, and Carlo Maria Martini was seen as a liberal alternative. In the meantime, he kicked the bucket, and nobody with even the slightest modernistic bent has come to prominence. So basically, it makes no difference who the next pope will be, as he will undoubtedly stay the course.

Regina Phalange
03-08-2013, 04:00 PM
Mean Girls of the Vatican. (http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/mean-girls-of-the-vatican)

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/3/7/12/enhanced-buzz-1311-1362678417-0.jpg



http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2013/3/7/12/enhanced-buzz-12553-1362678404-9.jpg

Barbarella
03-10-2013, 04:20 PM
;l ;l ;l

ebby
03-11-2013, 08:40 PM
I'm sure you might have seen this news item doing the rounds. It sounds like it should be a headline from The Onion, but it's actually real.

The Vatican just bought the biggest gay sauna in Europe. No, really. They did.

As cardinals gather to elect Pope, Catholic officials break into a sweat over news that €23m investment includes gay sauna (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/as-cardinals-gather-to-elect-pope-catholic-officials-break-into-a-sweat-over-news-that-23m-investment-includes-gay-sauna-8529670.html)

Seems a big apartment block was bought, which happens to house about 19 Cardinals and Priests.


The senior Vatican figure sweating the most due to the unlikely proximity of the gay Europa Multiclub is probably Cardinal Ivan Dias, the head of the Congregation for Evangelisation of Peoples, who is due to participate in tomorrow’s election at the Sistine Chapel.

This 76-year-old “prince of the church” enjoys a 12-room apartment on the first-floor of the imposing palazzo, at 2 Via Carducci, just yards from the ground floor entrance to the steamy flesh pot. There are 18 other Vatican apartments in the block, many of which house priests.

I'm sure he had no idea at all that he was in such close proximity to the biggest gay sauna in Europe.


The article also has this wonderful little gem after researching the sauna:


The sauna’s website promotes one of its special “bear nights”, with a video in which a rotund, hairy man strips down before changing into a priest’s outfit. It says Bruno, “a hairy, overweight pastor of souls, is free to the music of his clergyman, remaining in a thong, because he wants to expose body and soul”.

Barbarella
03-13-2013, 04:28 PM
Wow. I mean you couldn't write this shit better.

And who is buying that they "OMG didn't know???" I mean REALLY!

ebby
03-13-2013, 05:51 PM
And on top of that, one of the cardinals currently voting for the new pope covered up child sex abuse claims in LA: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/13/sex-cases-conclave-cardinal-settled

It's all wonderful, really, isn't it?

Steve SFM
03-13-2013, 06:09 PM
Well, they have a new Pope. The white smoke just came out.

SisterDew
03-13-2013, 06:22 PM
almost a pity, i liked the internet going crazy about a sea gull sitting on the vatican chimney. ;) https://twitter.com/Vatican_Seagull

Kari
03-13-2013, 06:39 PM
What old, racist, self hating closet case will we get this time? But more importantly, I hope Seacrest asks what she's wearing...

Ryan
03-13-2013, 06:59 PM
Wanda Sykes pretty much sums it up.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/7848A001-17D0-4F0C-8021-C8BE4520CEA6-31976-00000E24B9811F12_zpsdb038b24.jpg

Steve SFM
03-13-2013, 07:16 PM
But more importantly, I hope Seacrest asks what she's wearing...

;l

Bergolio of Argentina. Pope Francisco I.

beanstew
03-13-2013, 07:27 PM
What we have is a liberal Latino-American. "Liberal", let's use that in inverted commas as that can mean many things in the Catholic church.


I love Jon Snow (UK Channel 4 news anchor).

fullofwish
03-13-2013, 07:29 PM
And his Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Bergoglio) says, under early life "He is another homophobic bastard indeed." ;l

fluteoftheloon
03-13-2013, 07:29 PM
I swear they booed when he announced the name. ;l

Rabih
03-13-2013, 07:36 PM
Annd he's 76. Of course. :rolleyes:

Regina Phalange
03-13-2013, 07:40 PM
I am looking it at he's from South America, so it appeals to the giant number of catholics, but at the same time, as he's from Argentina, he's not too brown to alienate the rest of them.

So now they're calling him Pope Francis. Really, can't we use Francisco? Are we that stupid that we can't figure out Francisco = Francis? Frankly, it's annoying.

fluteoftheloon
03-13-2013, 07:43 PM
The names always get translated into the respective languages. In German he'll be Papst Franziskus, for example. John Paul was Johannes Paul etc.

SMMY
03-13-2013, 07:44 PM
I'm torn between referring to him as either Pope Frankie or Pope Franny.

Regina Phalange
03-13-2013, 07:47 PM
The names always get translated into the respective languages. In German he'll be Papst Franziskus, for example. John Paul was Johannes Paul etc.

While that's true, Francisco is known enough in English that it doesn't HAVE to be. It is the name of one of our biggest cities here in the US.

Maybe we should call him Rice A Roni, the San Francisco treat.

Autumn
03-13-2013, 08:32 PM
So now they're calling him Pope Francis. Really, can't we use Francisco? Are we that stupid that we can't figure out Francisco = Francis? Frankly, it's annoying.

Didn't he took the name after Saint Francis of Assisi aka Francesco d'Assisi (pretty commonly referred to as Francis vs. Francesco 'round here). It kind of makes sense that we would call him Pope Francis, rather than Pope Francesco.

SMMY
03-13-2013, 08:42 PM
I like Pope Rice A Roni best and I'm going with that. And in honor of both his Italian ancestry and South American place of birth:

http://www.ricearoni.com/images/products/Large/rr_ItalianCreamyGarlic.png http://www.ricearoni.com/images/products/Large/rr_MexicanStyle.png

waitressboy
03-13-2013, 08:45 PM
Oh jesus f***ing christ.
Bergoglio is the Pope.
Be ready for a new age full of homophobic, anti-abortion and anti-socialist/left-wing politics comments from the Pope.

Lágnætti
03-13-2013, 08:52 PM
I am looking it at he's from South America, so it appeals to the giant number of catholics, but at the same time, as he's from Argentina, he's not too brown to alienate the rest of them.

Meh. An African pope at this point in time would probably make Ratzi look like a flaming hippie. I mean, that's not the place to be looking for progressive ideas regarding women, gays and basic science (condoms preventing HIV etc), if I may be frank. If you want ultra-conservatism and an attitude to the homos and women that's more or less the equivalent of the Taliban on the other hand ...

It would be to laugh to watch people trying to feel good about a pope's skin colour while trying to work out if they're actually allowed to exist in his worldview though!

Kari
03-13-2013, 08:53 PM
Yeah...I am all for inclusiveness but an African pope would not be a step forward.

Lágnætti
03-13-2013, 08:54 PM
Oh jesus f***ing christ.
Bergoglio is the Pope.
Be ready for a new age full of homophobic, anti-abortion and anti-socialist/left-wing politics comments from the Pope.

So, plus de change ...

It's Roman Catholicism. It's full of shit, always has been and always will be. Expecting some kind of leftie treehugger to emerge from that shitshow at this point in history is delusional at best.

Steve SFM
03-13-2013, 08:54 PM
Except SF is only the 14th largest US city by population. YES I CHECKED WIKIPEDIA.

They're saying that Pope Frankie is strong on stuff like helping the poor. And he's a Jesuit, and they're supposed to be dedicated to social justice. Of course, this may just be wishful thinking by the librul Catholics on MSNBC. :D

waitressboy
03-13-2013, 08:56 PM
Bergoglio said a couples years ago that the Christian people who uses anticonceptive pills and/or condoms are terrorists.
Just sayin'.

Kari
03-13-2013, 08:57 PM
^ ooooh, he's a charmer!

Regina Phalange
03-13-2013, 08:57 PM
I've been calling him Pope-A-Roni for the last hour or so.

Lágnætti
03-13-2013, 08:57 PM
Yeah...I am all for inclusiveness but an African pope would not be a step forward.

Watching lefties trying to feel good about the possibility of an OMGBLACKPOPE is the funniest thing I've seen since ... well. I mean, could we be more superficial if we FUCKING TRIED?

Kari
03-13-2013, 09:00 PM
Watching lefties trying to feel good about the possibility of an OMGBLACKPOPE is the funniest thing I've seen since ... well. I mean, could we be more superficial if we FUCKING TRIED?

Yeah....a lot of my Fbook and twitter was like "PICK THE MAN OF COLOR FROM GHANA!" and I was like "YEAH NO". His views are...ugh they are just not at all good!

Lágnætti
03-13-2013, 09:04 PM
^How many of those peeps are even practicing Roman Catholics? The whole thing is just ... ergh.

Rabih
03-13-2013, 10:14 PM
And now let us rejoice that he's a Jesuit. Spending 13 years studying at the Jesuits' makes you hate them now more than ever. :m

ebby
03-13-2013, 10:19 PM
^ well, I went to a Jesuit secondary school, but they were the liberal hippie ones of the country compared to the rest it seems.

My folks were hooked on the whole thing tonight, even taking their dinner in front of the TV to watch it. (that's a major No in our house.)

On the plus side, the new guy seems more personable than the last one. One the negative side, he's still an ancient Catholic throwback to a bygone era.

Here's a selection of his lovely views (fanx Wikipedia!):



Cardinal Bergoglio has encouraged his clergy and laity to oppose both abortion and euthanasia, describing the pro-choice movement as a "culture of death".

[...]
He opposes same-sex marriage and has called it "demonic in origin". He strongly, but ultimately unsuccessfully, opposed legislation introduced in 2010 by the Argentine Government to allow same-sex marriage, calling it a "real and dire anthropological throwback." In a letter to the monasteries of Buenos Aires, he wrote: "Let's not be naïve, we're not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God." He has also insisted that adoption by gay and lesbian people is a form of discrimination against children. This position received a rebuke from Argentine president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, who said the church's tone was reminiscent of "medieval times and the Inquisition."

[...]

Cardinal Bergoglio commented on the worthiness of individuals to receive the Eucharist. The text states in paragraph 436 that, "We should commit ourselves to ‘eucharistic coherence’, that is, we should be conscious that people cannot receive Holy Communion and at the same time act or speak against the commandments, in particular when abortion, euthanasia, and other serious crimes against life and family are facilitated. This responsibility applies particularly to legislators, governors, and health professionals."

Amazing.

I love how same-sex marriage is something created by Lucifer. That's so hot.

fox in socks
03-13-2013, 11:03 PM
its pretty unlikely that a catholic pope of any nationality would be "progressive catholic pope'. its pretty much an oxymoron as the catholic faith is filled with everything that defines NOT progressive.

ebby
03-13-2013, 11:05 PM
I love that this is doing the rounds already:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/ecd1cccc0c62137b8c025dd1dbf57a48/tumblr_mjme78i5Ar1qb2s7ro1_500.jpg

gyabou
03-13-2013, 11:16 PM
There's also some weird stuff going on with his involvement with the military dictatorship in Argentina during the Dirty War in the 70s. About 8 years ago it was claimed by a human rights lawyer that he was involved in the kidnapping of two Jesuit priests by the junta; he claimed that he actually worked within the dictatorship to get them released. There's other claims that he worked with with the junta as well. It's probably one of those things we'll never really know the truth about.

fox in socks
03-13-2013, 11:18 PM
^ well, I went to a Jesuit secondary school, but they were the liberal hippie ones of the country compared to the rest it seems. also, religion twins! i went to a jesuit place for my undergraduate. our education had core religion classes, but also core philosophy courses. two of which shoved me right down that satanic road of agnostic atheism! backfire!

Regina Phalange
03-13-2013, 11:20 PM
There's also some weird stuff going on with his involvement with the military dictatorship in Argentina during the Dirty War in the 70s. About 8 years ago it was claimed by a human rights lawyer that he was involved in the kidnapping of two Jesuit priests by the junta; he claimed that he actually worked within the dictatorship to get them released. There's other claims that he worked with with the junta as well. It's probably one of those things we'll never really know the truth about.

One of the first things I thought about was his involvement in some of Argentina's less-than-savory history.

MTC
03-14-2013, 12:21 AM
In regard to the Dirty War, I saw this on CNN's site earlier today, but it's gone now. I fished around and found it here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/9928688/From-Father-Jorge-to-Pope-Francis-the-monk-like-priest-who-now-leads-1.2bn-Catholics.html


He has been criticised(sic) over the church’s failure to confront openly the abuses committed by the Argentine dictatorship that came to power after the 1976 coup.

Human rights campaigners have accused him of effectively handing over two of his Jesuit priests to the regime’s death squads, although he also secured their release and probably saved their lives through an extraordinary behind-the-scenes appeal to the junta’s leader, Jorge Rafael Videla.

Pope Francis, who ran Argentina’s Jesuit order during the dictatorship, has also faced claims that he turned his back on a family that lost five relatives in the state-sponsored violence, including a woman who was five months pregnant when she was kidnapped and reportedly gave birth in captivity before being killed.

The former cardinal testified in 2010 that he didn't know about any stolen babies until well after the dictatorship was over.

The Pope's defenders argue that there is no proof to support the claims made against him, and say the helped many dissidents escape during the military junta's rule.

Mordecai
03-14-2013, 01:51 AM
And now let us rejoice that he's a Jesuit. Spending 13 years studying at the Jesuits' makes you hate them now more than ever. :m

LOL. Jesuit education ---> atheism :D

AzMoo
03-14-2013, 02:08 AM
And now let us rejoice that he's a Jesuit. Spending 13 years studying at the Jesuits' makes you hate them now more than ever. :m

An ex of mine, who was a staunch atheist, went to a Jesuit school and had nothing but praise for them.

ebby
03-14-2013, 02:57 AM
Ah Jesuits, churning out fine skeptics and atheists

Dan
03-14-2013, 08:14 AM
While that's true, Francisco is known enough in English that it doesn't HAVE to be. It is the name of one of our biggest cities here in the US.
I'm not sure whether I'm misreading actual fine-tuned sarcasm or seeing blatant ignorance and stupidity.

Michael Michael
03-14-2013, 01:28 PM
An acquaintance of mine on facebook, a very serious Catholic, posted this alongside a picture of the three most recent popes (including the new guy):


All my popes thus far. I love my popes! So many saintly men — sometimes I feel like I'm living through the best period in Catholic history! :)

What is this I don't even. How can anyone think this is the best period of Catholic history? What about the child rapes?

Steve SFM
03-14-2013, 03:09 PM
Never has the title of this thread seemed more appropriate.

uncanny hats
03-14-2013, 03:22 PM
An acquaintance of mine on facebook, a very serious Catholic, posted this alongside a picture of the three most recent popes (including the new guy):



What is this I don't even. How can anyone think this is the best period of Catholic history? What about the child rapes?

I've been chatting with some of my far-leftist friends who are all like "Where's the liberation theology?" Yeah, well. People are excited. He's a Jesuit (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/06/horrible-jesuit-radicals-want-to-recall-pro-life-governor-scott-walker/). And just two years ago, there were thoughts that Jesuitism was done. (http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/04/27/the-archetypal-and-declining-jesuits/)

I see Francis as the Barack Obama of popes.

Andrea
03-14-2013, 05:27 PM
also, religion twins! i went to a jesuit place for my undergraduate. our education had core religion classes, but also core philosophy courses. two of which shoved me right down that satanic road of agnostic atheism! backfire!

I could have written this myself. I actually really appreciated my Jesuit education for that reason.
My intro to religion professor taught us that the translation of rib in the Adam and Eve story had been misrepresented. The evidence that helped Christianity subjugate women for centuries should have read "side" meaning half- as in an equal amount. I was pretty impressed given that I was sitting in a classroom at a Catholic institution.

ETA: of course I was also informed in class that sex with contraception in place was "sexual bulimia". So it wasn't all roses.

Mordecai
03-15-2013, 12:16 AM
I've been chatting with some of my far-leftist friends who are all like "Where's the liberation theology?" Yeah, well. People are excited. He's a Jesuit (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/06/horrible-jesuit-radicals-want-to-recall-pro-life-governor-scott-walker/). And just two years ago, there were thoughts that Jesuitism was done. (http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/04/27/the-archetypal-and-declining-jesuits/)

I see Francis as the Barack Obama of popes.

Sadly, he's opposed to liberation theology. He is alleged to have turned over fellow Jesuits (!!) to the right-wing Argentine dictatorship infamous for abducting leftists and tossing them from aeroplanes into the South Atlantic.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/3/14/pope_francis_junta_past_argentine_journalist

If that's true, he makes Benedict XVI look like Florence Nightingale.

uncanny hats
03-16-2013, 03:47 PM
Sadly, he's opposed to liberation theology. He is alleged to have turned over fellow Jesuits (!!) to the right-wing Argentine dictatorship infamous for abducting leftists and tossing them from aeroplanes into the South Atlantic.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/3/14/pope_francis_junta_past_argentine_journalist

If that's true, he makes Benedict XVI look like Florence Nightingale.

As the Pope=Junta story moves forward, it's coming out that he never collaborated with dictatorship, (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/15/francisco-jalics-reconciled-pope-francis_n_2882956.html) but rather rescinded support for liberation theologists, suggesting they stop working in the slums for their own safety. This is tricky. I think for most people on the Far Left, he's a coward. On the other hand, I think for the average person, he's practical or normal.

I don't know. I'm not Catholic. My interest in this is: can he or will he change the tone of austerity among Catholics like Paul Ryan? Probably not, but it could certainly make things tense.

waitressboy
03-16-2013, 06:46 PM
As the Pope=Junta story moves forward, it's coming out that he never collaborated with dictatorship, (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/15/francisco-jalics-reconciled-pope-francis_n_2882956.html) but rather rescinded support for liberation theologists, suggesting they stop working in the slums for their own safety. This is tricky. I think for most people on the Far Left, he's a coward. On the other hand, I think for the average person, he's practical or normal.

I don't know. I'm not Catholic. My interest in this is: can he or will he change the tone of austerity among Catholics like Paul Ryan? Probably not, but it could certainly make things tense.

Uhm, let me clear this because there's something lost in translation in that article.
Jelics and Yorio declared thousands of times that Bergoglio was the person who betrayed them. Yorio's brother even declared on trial that Bergoglio called him by phone, told him that Yorio had been executed, so he (Yorio's brother) should tell that to his mother so she was aware that her son wasn't going to return home.
Years later, when Bergoglio was named as Buenos Aires' archbishop, Jelics moved to another country. He was THAT afraid of him.

When Jelics said that he is reconciled with Bergoglio (I refuse to use his name as a pope) he means like he's given up on waiting for justice. He has accepted that Bergoglio will never go to jail for what he's done and he kinda gives up on that.
Nothing will change on the Vatican. Today I read that Bergoglio said he wants a poor Church for poor people.
Yeah, sure.
And then the aliens will arrive and conquer the planet.

Mordecai
03-16-2013, 07:32 PM
Uhm, let me clear this because there's something lost in translation in that article.
Jelics and Yorio declared thousands of times that Bergoglio was the person who betrayed them. Yorio's brother even declared on trial that Bergoglio called him by phone, told him that Yorio had been executed, so he (Yorio's brother) should tell that to his mother so she was aware that her son wasn't going to return home.
Years later, when Bergoglio was named as Buenos Aires' archbishop, Jelics moved to another country. He was THAT afraid of him.

When Jelics said that he is reconciled with Bergoglio (I refuse to use his name as a pope) he means like he's given up on waiting for justice. He has accepted that Bergoglio will never go to jail for what he's done and he kinda gives up on that.

I'm sure Jelics was pressured into "forgiving" him.


Nothing will change on the Vatican. Today I read that Bergoglio said he wants a poor Church for poor people.
Yeah, sure.
And then the aliens will arrive and conquer the planet.

Same shit Benny wanted: smaller, more doctrinaire and traditional church. Bergoglio probably understands that the poor and ignorant are their natural target demographic.

AzMoo
03-23-2013, 12:12 AM
In yet another shocking development from the Catholic Church, Anti-Gay Cardinal turns out to be gay (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/21/keith-obrien-abuser-relationship_n_2928534.html).


Cardinal Keith O'Brien, the former head of the Roman Catholic church in Scotland who is accused of groping priests since the 1980s, was physically involved with one of his accusers for years, according to a report in the Scottish newspaper The Herald.

...

The cardinal is hostile to gay rights, and has called homosexuality a "grotesque subversion." According to The Herald, at least two of the accusers have been frustrated by the cardinal's rhetoric about gay marriage.

ebby
03-23-2013, 08:06 PM
I really think they should rename that church to the Closet-olic Church.

Rabih
03-26-2013, 10:58 AM
Have you seen the portrait (http://www.twincities.com/wisconsin/ci_22845763/wisconsin-artist-creates-benedict-xvi-portrait-out-condoms)of Pope Benedict XVI made out of 17,000 colored condoms done by Milwaukee artist Niki Johnson which is now talked about everywhere?

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2013/0321/20130321__condom%20pope_500.jpg

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1296781!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/condoms-2-0322.jpg

lacuna
03-26-2013, 04:01 PM
omg, did she make that like one would make a latch hook rug? That alone makes me laugh.

Chalk
03-26-2013, 07:00 PM
That is awesome!

other pete
03-31-2013, 09:49 PM
1652

...cock?

other pete
06-13-2013, 10:10 AM
Pope Francis is reported to have acknowledged (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22869399) the existence of a "gay lobby" inside the Vatican.

Head down the S&M corridor, over the mafia concourse, straight through the revolving doors of penetance, and you will be welcomed into the gay lobby.

Seriously though why would there not be a gay mafia there? The mafia mafia are sufficiently represented.

Mordecai
06-13-2013, 11:47 AM
The rumor is that the ""gay mafia"" had dirt on Benny and threatened to blackmail him, which is why he resigned.

beanstew
06-28-2013, 11:33 AM
Monsignor Nunzio Scarano held in Vatican bank inquiry (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23094320)


A senior Italian cleric has been arrested in connection with an inquiry into the Vatican bank scandal over allegations of corruption and fraud.

Monsignor Nunzio Scarano works in the Vatican's financial administration. A secret service agent and a financial broker have also been arrested.

They are suspected of trying to move 20m euros illegally into Italy.

Pope Francis ordered an unprecedented internal investigation into the bank's affairs in the wake of recent scandals.

Monsignor Scarano has been under investigation by Italian police for a series of suspicious transactions involving the recycling of a series of cheques described as church donations through the Vatican Bank.

Earlier this month, the Pope named a trusted cleric to oversee the management of the bank, which has been beset by allegations of money-laundering.

Officially known as the Institute for the Works of Religion, the bank is one of the world's most secretive. It has 114 employees and $7.1bn (£4.6bn; 5.4bn euros) of assets.

Pope Francis has given the commission carte blanche, bypassing normal secrecy rules, to try to get to the bottom of scandals which have plagued the bank for decades.

Traditionally, the Vatican Bank has refused to co-operate with Italian authorities investigating financial crime on the grounds of the sovereign independence of the Vatican city state, says the BBC's David Willey in Rome.

But Pope Francis has shown that he is now determined to get to the bottom of long-standing allegations of corruption and money-laundering by the bank, our correspondent adds.

The Institute for the Works of Religion was a major shareholder in the Banco Ambrosiano, a big Italian bank which collapsed in 1982 with losses of more than $3bn.

Its chairman, Roberto Calvi, was found hanging from Blackfriars Bridge in London - in a murder disguised as a suicide. Mr Calvi had close relations with the Vatican.


http://i.qkme.me/3p8vfp.jpg

Jake
07-29-2013, 07:40 PM
Pope won't judge gay priests (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/30/world/europe/pope-francis-gay-priests.html?_r=0)


ROME — Striking a breathtakingly conciliatory approach to a hot-button issue that has divided Catholics, Pope Francis on Monday said that he would not judge priests for their sexual orientation. “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Francis said, according to media reports.

I'm not religious in the slightest nor do I follow religious politics closely, but this seems like a pretty bold statement?

waitressboy
07-29-2013, 08:00 PM
He actually said that he won't judge gay people, but that the "lobby gay" (whatever the shit is) is the evil.

Baltic
07-29-2013, 09:23 PM
He actually said that he won't judge gay people, but that the "lobby gay" (whatever the shit is) is the evil.

Actually, he said their sexual orientation isn't the "evil" but the crimes they commit, is.

This is great. Though his (or the church's) stance on gay marriage, abortion and women hasn't changed, the fact that he acknowledges homosexuality in the Vatican, and states there is nothing wrong with it (as long as they don't fuck), is quite something.

Zach
07-29-2013, 09:50 PM
Forgive me for not being moved.


He added that while such a lobby would be an issue, he did not have anything against gays and that their sins should be forgiven, media reports said. He said that homosexuals should be treated with dignity and that no one should be blackmailed or pressured because of sexual orientation.. However, nothing in what he said suggested acceptance of anyone, priest or otherwise, engaging in homosexual acts.

fuck him and every Catholic who believes this shit

Kari
07-29-2013, 09:51 PM
^That's basically where I'm at. Fuck Catholicism. I feel like they hired some """liberal""" pope to fool everyone into believing they're progressive.

Baltic
07-29-2013, 10:03 PM
As far as I know, sexual relations between heterosexuals is also forbidden, unless it is to procreate, and within a marriage. Considering that the church has been considered quite homophobic in the past, this is somewhat progressive. Language is very powerful, and to say that "being gay is okay" rather than "you are going to hell for being gay" can do a lot to people struggling with their sexuality. Of course, I do not agree with the Vatican's stance on sex, but the fact that Francis is wording things in a way that hasn't been done before, is a step.

waitressboy
07-29-2013, 10:05 PM
Actually, he said their sexual orientation isn't the "evil" but the crimes they commit, is.


I was actually referring to the press conference he did today. Bergoglio (a.k.a. the pope; I refuse to use his nickname when I talk about him) had always said that gay people are ok as long as they don't do the things gay people do.
And he LOVES to talk about the gay lobby. He talks a lot about this mafia of gay people (sic) that forces the media and the societe to become gay so the society will be destroyed because of the gays. In your face, Dan Brown.

Brian
07-29-2013, 10:06 PM
^That's basically where I'm at. Fuck Catholicism. I feel like they hired some """liberal""" pope to fool everyone into believing they're progressive.

They were looking for humble and pious following Benedict. Considering some of his pronouncements and the scrambling reaction by many in positions of power in the church, I definitely think they got someone much more liberal than they thought going in, and I'm enjoying the circus for that at least. This is the Catholic church after all- it will never be tolerant enough for us. Not in our lifetimes. But this is progress of a sort. And softening the rhetoric, even slightly, can hopefully only help the atmosphere in the more hostile anti-gay places in Latin/South America and Africa where his influence is strongest.

Steve SFM
07-29-2013, 10:09 PM
Well, he is less of a dickhead than Ratzinger. But that's not saying much. And anyway, the problem is less the individuals and much more the theology itself. Until Catholicism rids itself of homophobic theology, as some Protestant denominations (and, hell, plenty of individual Catholics) have, the Church is an enemy of LGBT people.

Zach
07-29-2013, 10:10 PM
The idea that it's okay to expect someone to have a sexuality and not act upon it is so perverted and unnatural (but hey, look what institution we're talking about and its record with sex) and frankly unforgivable. Sorry, but it's 2013, so the fact that anyone is still deliberating this issue or adhering to the church's edicts doesn't seem like any kind of step to me.

Brian
07-29-2013, 10:13 PM
Then get used to disappointment, I guess. Because incremental gains are all you are ever going to get in this arena. We're still generations away from the church becoming a marginal influence.

Brian
07-29-2013, 10:17 PM
Well, he is less of a dickhead than Ratzinger. But that's not saying much. And anyway, the problem is less the individuals and much more the theology itself. Until Catholicism rids itself of homophobic theology, as some Protestant denominations (and, hell, plenty of individual Catholics) have, the Church is an enemy of LGBT people.

I don't think anyone is jumping up and down and clapping that the church is on their side now. But any public pronouncement along these lines would have been absolutely unthinkable 15 years ago.

Baltic
07-29-2013, 11:55 PM
In related news, Desmond Tutu (retired Anglican bishop) says he "will not worship a God who is homophobic,":


South Africa’s iconic retired archbishop, Desmond Tutu, said on Friday that if he had his pick, he’d go to hell before heading to a heaven that condemned homosexuality as sin.

“I would not worship a God who is homophobic and that is how deeply I feel about this,” he said, by way of denouncing religions that discriminate against gays, in Agence France-Presse..

He added, AFP reported: “I would refuse to go to a homophobic heaven. No, I would say sorry, I mean I would much rather go to the other place.”

He made the remarks during the United Nations‘ launch of its gay-rights campaign in Cape Town.

Mr. Tutu also likened equal rights for gays to the fight for equal rights for blacks.

“I am as passionate about this campaign as I ever was about apartheid,” he said, AFP reported. “For me, it is at the same level.”


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/26/desmond-tutu-id-pick-hell-over-anti-gay-heaven/#ixzz2aTgCHrCL



There is progress with religious leaders expressing how they feel, rather than what is being dictated to them. The pope's words are progressive because they open the doors to more communication with LGBT people.

Homogenik
07-30-2013, 12:31 AM
As far as I know, many before have held that discourse in the Church : gay people must be respected, it's the act that is sinnnfuuullllll!!!!!

Ratzinger quote : "...According to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies 'must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided'. They are called, like other Christians, to live the virtue of chastity. The homosexual inclination is however 'objectively disordered' and homosexual practices are 'sins gravely contrary to chastity".

Double talk.

On another Catho topic :


Madonna to be discussed at Polish exorcists meeting
Madonna will feature on the agenda of a secretive five-day meeting of European exorcists in Poland.

Long the scourge of the Catholic Church, Madonna has often triggered Christian ire, once going through a mock crucifixion during one her stage shows.
Now her music and shows will come under the scrutiny of priests trained in the art of defeating demons, treating satanic possession and looking for the devil in a section of the conference dedicated to finding evil in popular culture.
"Part of the conference is dedicated to the hidden subliminal message in communication, and the choice of this subject was inspired by the woman who dares to call herself Madonna," said Father Andrzej Grefkowic, an exorcist and one of the organisers of the conference. "We've been worried about her concerts."
Although popular in Poland, Madonna has faced frequent protests by conservatives against her shows in a country where the Catholic Church retains considerable influence. She has also had to contest with calls for her concerts to be banned on the grounds she is antireligious and promotes a deviant lifestyle.
Father Grefkowic also warned of a growing risk from Satan, highlighting the increasing popularity of tattoos, body piercing, horoscopes and magic shows as ways evil could corrupt people.
Along with analysing the apparent risks posed by modern fashions and trends, the exorcism conference will also discuss ways to deal with possession. Exorcists claim that despite European culture becoming increasingly secular demands for their services are on the rise as people look for unorthodox help for the unexplained.
About 300 exorcists and lay specialists are expected to attend the five-day conference, which is held every two years, at the Jasna Gora monastery, the most holy site in Poland.

[crazy2]

Steve SFM
07-30-2013, 03:47 AM
the woman who dares to call herself Madonna

IT'S HER FUCKING BIRTH NAME. Asswipe.

Tutu's statement was great, but it led to a lot of brain-dead fundies at HuffPo saying he was doomed to go to "the other place". :rolleyes:

Mordecai
07-30-2013, 05:02 AM
The idea that it's okay to expect someone to have a sexuality and not act upon it is so perverted and unnatural (but hey, look what institution we're talking about and its record with sex) and frankly unforgivable. Sorry, but it's 2013, so the fact that anyone is still deliberating this issue or adhering to the church's edicts doesn't seem like any kind of step to me.

Thing is, they have fucked up views for heterosexuals too—even in the case of strictly procreative sex within the confines of marriage.

Think about it. Ever notice how ALL the Catholic saints supposedly in heaven, with the exception of the pre-Christian patriarchs from the Old Testament, were ALL VIRGINS (or celibate). Ever wonder why Mary's virginity is such a huge fucking deal? Ever notice how it's the same for the entire hierarchy of the church?

The whole bloody thing is a giant anti-sex lunatic cult. It's nearly the equivalent of the Heaven's Gate sect in which everyone denies themselves sex so they can be admitted onboard the magic spaceship that's hiding behind the Hale-Bopp comet that will spirit them away from this mortal coil to a paradise androgyne planet. Only Christianity is 2000 year old, so it's accepted as normal. But just as insane!

other pete
07-30-2013, 10:28 AM
@TheOnion: Vatican Quickly Performs Damage Control On Pope’s Tolerant Remarks http://onion.com/13ULoV9



Ha!

But this mainly strikes me as a way for the Cathoholics to try to SOUND reasonable, compassionate, moderate, while barely moving their actual gay-demeaning *practices* an inch.

Homogenik
07-30-2013, 12:42 PM
the Holy Father was clearly tired after his long trip to Brazil and never meant for his comments to sound caring or realistic. “Homosexuality is a disorder. And this in no way means that, going forward, the Catholic Church will be an open-minded, more sensible organization. I assure you we are just as prejudiced and backward today as we were yesterday. Thank you.”

Sounds like a parody! They should put that on t-shirts. ;l

Baltic
07-30-2013, 12:59 PM
That is satire.

Kari
07-30-2013, 02:34 PM
The whole bloody thing is a giant anti-sex lunatic cult. It's nearly the equivalent of the Heaven's Gate sect in which everyone denies themselves sex so they can be admitted onboard the magic spaceship that's hiding behind the Hale-Bopp comet that will spirit them away from this mortal coil to a paradise androgyne planet. Only Christianity is 2000 year old, so it's accepted as normal. But just as insane!

Yeah basically! It sort of baffles me that Catholicism still wields so much power.

Jezebelle
07-30-2013, 03:20 PM
I think what he said was a good thing. Its a far more rational perspective that seems based on the teachings of love that should be prevalent in a religion. I'm not defending the religion by any means, but so far this pope seems pretty good - he seems to really be a humble servant of his faith.

Steve SFM
07-30-2013, 04:44 PM
According to an anonymous source close to the Vatican, the Pope is currently being yelled at by Church officials, who are telling him, “You don’t just go off script like that. Who the fuck do you think you are?”

Gotta love The Onion. ;l

Zach
07-30-2013, 07:36 PM
I think what he said was a good thing. .


he did not have anything against gays and that their sins should be forgiven is not a good thing! Stop!

waitressboy
07-30-2013, 07:52 PM
Ok, guys, there's something wrong here. I don't know if they showed the whole "press conference" in your countries, but I saw it yesterday, and believe me, Bergoglio didn't say that he wasn't going to judge gay people. So if somebody's thinking that a big change is gonna come, I'm sorry, but that's not gonna happen.
Bergoglio said that he's not gonna judge a gay people AS LONG AS HE/SHE IS NOT MAKING LOBBY. And that nobody should discriminate a gay person AS LONG AS HE/SHE HAS GOOD WILL AND IS LOOKING FOR GOD.

So, forget it.
This is the same old shit as always, but with nicer words and a posse of "ooh, look, I'm so cool and people can touch me!".

Remember: this is the same man that a couple years ago, before Argentina approved gay marriage, sent a letter to all the catholic nuns saying that the gay marriage was another battle in the war against the devil.
So, yeah. Bullshit.

Homogenik
07-30-2013, 09:44 PM
That is satire.

Oh... yeah... I realize that now [ashamed]