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Thread: NoH News & Information (September 16 Update)

  1. #1936
    so what if i like pretty things Bryan Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toofastdriving View Post
    Not really wanting to perpetuate the conversation about photoshop...but perhaps it's all deliberate. There's various conversations going on in this forum at the moment talking about Tori starting to refer to 'Tori' in the 3rd person, about becoming more and more disconnected, about being worried about giving too much away of herself - perhaps this has all led to the 'caricatures' of her we've seen in the last few albums (the wigs, the over the top clothes, the photoshop)? Absolutely no-one in their right mind would look at the album artwork of recent releases and say they looked like great pics (MWG in particular). No-one you would ever pay to photoshop your pictures would make them look like that - and if they did they'd promptly be fired. Maybe this is all part of the 'image' of 'the artist Tori', which is what we get these days - the 'Tori Caricature'.
    I think this is exactly the case. Ellen Hawley, or whatever the fuck she goes by, is one person and I think that she wants to appear as far away from the real thing as possible when she is "Tori Amos." I'm not sure why, but I think that's the case. It's not like she sits around in Cornwall and uses torispeak with Mark and her daughter. She doesn't want anyone to know what she's actually like in anyway whatsoever. She's gone as far as distorting her face in artwork. There is no way in the burning balls of hell that she looked at that photo and thought it was a good representation of her actual face. It is clearly and intentionally manipulated so that she appears as a character and not a real person. And that's exactly how she wants it to be. It is not just "bad photoshop." It's not as if the image got fucked up in editing and slipped passed Tori and she never saw it or approved it. If it were just a "bad job," how could that person even have a career in digital art?
    tuna rubber a little blubber in my igloo

  2. #1937
    gotta get you back to you... Irene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Alan View Post
    It is clearly and intentionally manipulated so that she appears as a character and not a real person. And that's exactly how she wants it to be. It is not just "bad photoshop." It's not as if the image got fucked up in editing and slipped passed Tori and she never saw it or approved it. If it were just a "bad job," how could that person even have a career in digital art?
    Let me put it this way. If this was the case, that she honestly truly wanted to distort her face on purpose, there is actually a GOOD, skillful way to do that with Photoshop. Distortion does not always equal bad Photoshopping. I don't believe it "slips past Tori" or that she doesn't approve it -- I think she's not attuned to how awful it is. I believe Tori is just as capable of making poor visual choices as she is poor production or musical choices (i.e approving Mac's guitar). So, I respectfully disagree.

  3. #1938
    so what if i like pretty things Bryan Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paintedswan View Post
    Let me put it this way. If this was the case, that she honestly truly wanted to distort her face on purpose, there is actually a GOOD, skillful way to do that with Photoshop. Distortion does not always equal bad Photoshopping.
    Excellent point. Thank you.
    tuna rubber a little blubber in my igloo

  4. #1939
    She's done it before. Look at the SLG shots. She was intentionally made to look like someone other than herself, but it was very well done both stylistically and the retouching wasn't obvious.

    The point of photoshop isn't to make something look like it's been retouched. If you can tell something has been 'shopped, it's a shitty photoshop job.

  5. #1940
    By the methane lakes Bloody Grace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JessiCat View Post
    The point of photoshop isn't to make something look like it's been retouched. If you can tell something has been 'shopped, it's a shitty photoshop job.

    Exactly.

  6. #1941
    generally largely right Dan's Avatar
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    Yeah, but that was largely done with make-up, wigs and costumes. At that point, she was most likely still comfortable with the way she looked.

    And you're right about Photoshop. It's not a bad thing to begin with; the same with Pro Tools, Auto-tune and all these technologies, they have their purpose and are quite helpful. The problems appear when technology is misused and/or abused.

    As for the excessive facial photoshopping, it's clear that from AATS (or maybe even ADP) onwards, she wanted a certain look in her promo shots and album covers. An unnatural, completely altered look, which doesn't have much in common with her real face. I think this is how she wants the general public to perceive her, for some reason. She's clearly a lot more comfortable with fans - she often shows up wigless and casually clothed at meet and greets, but then again she knows that even though everyone is taking pictures and those pictures will inevitably end up on the internet, only hardcore fans will look at them.

  7. #1942
    French boy Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JessiCat View Post
    The point of photoshop isn't to make something look like it's been retouched. If you can tell something has been 'shopped, it's a shitty photoshop job.
    This is well said !!

  8. #1943
    Frankly my dear Girl Friday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JessiCat View Post
    The point of photoshop isn't to make something look like it's been retouched. If you can tell something has been 'shopped, it's a shitty photoshop job.
    YES. Exactly.

  9. #1944
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    The problems appear when technology is misused and/or abused.

    As for the excessive facial photoshopping, it's clear that from AATS (or maybe even ADP) onwards, she wanted a certain look in her promo shots and album covers. An unnatural, completely altered look, which doesn't have much in common with her real face.
    Yup. And if that's the way she wants to go, it should go all the way to a FTCH-style artwork theme. It's like she's straddling the middle. If she wants to be natural, there is a way to achieve a "natural" look in Photoshop without showing all your imperfections. If she wants a stylized look, go all the way with it like FTCH, a painting, the cover of Comic Book Tattoo. Now she's shopped so much that it's clearly unnatural, but not so much that it makes an artistic statement on its own. It's the uncanny valley.

  10. #1945
    Senior Member NeverHer's Avatar
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    The whole idea here is that she wants to get new fans and sell more albums. No one disagrees with that, right? But new fans are NOT buying anything but digital downloads! Tori is the only artist whose actual physical albums I still purchase. So make the pretty boxes with good, quality "extra" items for the die-hards, no stupid photoshopping, and put a crazy price tag on it-I know I will pay for it. Keep the music awesome and easily acquired digitally for potential "new" fans. Don't act like a crazy-person on TV and in interviews, and the music will stand alone, right? It doesn't take a genius. And I hate that I feel like she is trying to alienate me (and others in the long time fanbase).

  11. #1946
    Threat level: Bitch in a wheelchair andy's Avatar
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    All she really needs for fans to buy hardcopies of her albums is a bonus DVD with three on the songs from the album performed solo in studio. That costs her, what, 15 minutes of time?

  12. #1947
    Senior Member underwater-thing's Avatar
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    ^100% agreed. The in studio solo ADP tracks (that I believe were viewable via Amazon?) would have made a great addition.

  13. #1948
    They took the gay right out of me. Buelis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underwater-thing View Post
    ^100% agreed. The in studio solo ADP tracks (that I believe were viewable via Amazon?) would have made a great addition.
    It's a crime that high-quality versions of those have never surfaced. Easily the best pieces she's recorded in a studio since Garlands.

  14. #1949
    Lyrical acuity and mum-smarts menju56's Avatar
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    I watched those yesterday (re-posted in the ADP thread) and they are very good indeed. I'd rather those than an in-depth interview about hexagons.

  15. #1950
    Senior Member Sakre's Avatar
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    I pretty much stopped watching her interviews, anyway.

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