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Thread: so you want an ak-47: unfs gun control or lack thereof party thread

  1. #1411
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perky Compson View Post
    So the House voted to block implementation of an Obama admin order restricting gun sales to the mentally ill. I'm having some pretty mixed feelings about this one, because obviously the House is doing this as part of an escalating strategy to deregulate guns, but the original admin order was extremely flawed in my opinion.

    My beef with the original order is that it's not a mental health check, it's a mechanism to force the Social Security Administration to share medical information from its recipients on disability benefits with the FBI. I have three issues with this, which are basically 1) people on benefits should have as much a right to medical privacy as people of means, so this targets poor people with mental illness and not just mentally ill people generally; 2) the FBI threw the fucking election and I don't want them near anyone's health records generally; and 3) people in gun-happy communities may stop seeking mental health treatment if they think it will impact their ability to get a gun. As someone from gun country, I already know of two people who desperately need mental healthcare who are eschewing it because they're worried it'll stop them from getting a firearm. It's stupid, because people should prioritize their mental health over their fancy blast-toy, but it is how some people think.

    Also, the coverage for this issue in media has been really ugly in that, despite the fact that gun deaths are about twice as likely to be suicides as homicides, the emphasis has been on "oh no mass shooters" and not on mentally ill people killing themselves.
    Full disclosure: I think people who worry about their Second Amendment rights amid the kind of mental illness we face today are batshit crazy and/or selfish. I've been dealing with a mentally ill member of my extended family lately. If we had left her alone to her own devices, this would have happened:

    Despite a mother’s plea, her mentally ill daughter was sold a firearm. Here’s why she sued.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/loc...=.11573333fda8

    She called the police. Then ATF. After that, the FBI.

    Janet Delana was desperate to stop her mentally ill adult daughter from buying another handgun.

    Finally, Delana called the gun shop a few miles from her home, the one that had sold her daughter a black Hi-Point pistol a month earlier when her last disability check had arrived.

    The next check was coming.

    Delana pleaded.

    Her daughter had been in and out of mental hospitals, she told the store manager, and was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. She had tried to kill herself. Her father had taken away the other gun, but Delana worried that her daughter would go back.

    “I’m begging you,” Delana said through tears. “I’m begging you as a mother, if she comes in, please don’t sell her a gun.”

    Colby Sue Weathers was mentally ill, but she had never been identified as a threat to herself or others by a judge or ordered to an extended mental hospital stay — which meant she could pass the background check for her gun.Her daughter had been in and out of mental hospitals, she told the store manager, and was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. She had tried to kill herself. Her father had taken away the other gun, but Delana worried that her daughter would go back.
    She shot her father dead, but not before texting her mother to tell her that it was her fault. Her mom is going to have to remember that for the rest of her life.

  2. #1412
    Senior Member Jezebelle's Avatar
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    Wow - what a powerful read. I'm so glad that she brought the lawsuit and they SETTLED! This could be a turning point for stores to NOT sell to the mentally ill. What a tragic awful story - thanks for sharing. It missed my newsfeed entirely.
    chillin in kyoto grand with my man Skrill

  3. #1413
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    That's a truly terrifying and tragic story.

    The fact that I'm not for the particular Obama admin rule (which it doesn't seem would have covered that situation anyway) doesn't mean I think we shouldn't do something about violent or suicidal mentally ill people getting guns. But because mental illness is so stigmatized, especially in parts of the country that have gun culture, I'm worried about methods that would discourage people from seeking mental health treatment. Because then we have people who are untreated and still have their guns.

  4. #1414
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    Here's the thing Perky: I think that what this boils down to is that you're espousing the right to give my loved one the go-ahead to die with her boots on. She is a danger to herself and to others right now. I'm not so sure she and others like her can find the kind of nuanced treatment that you wish for in Donald Trump's America today.

    If these people are so mentally ill that they fear treatment, we need to reach out to them and tell them that we can do better.

  5. #1415
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    Last edited by Perky Compson; 03-20-2017 at 11:50 PM.

  6. #1416
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    Two adults killed and two kids wounded at an elementary school shooting in San Bernardino.

    https://twitter.com/braddjaffy/statu...96237148852229

  7. #1417
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    A gunman opened fire at a GOP congressional baseball practice this morning. They've hit four people including House Majority Whip Scalise.



    I clicked on a Fox link and listened briefly to a live stream, and heard another congressman being interviewed who implied this was due to increased heat and violent rhetoric from people at town halls upset about things like healthcare. In other words, they're going to start blaming liberals for violent rhetoric, despite the fact that the right has been ramping up on that through both of Obama's terms and of course during the reign of Orange Julius.

  8. #1418
    worth a million in prizes .chris's Avatar
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    I'm sure Trump is going to handle this so well...ugh.

  9. #1419
    Remember. Steve SFM's Avatar
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    Yeah, the righties' reaction has been a shit-ton of predictable stupid.
    At my core, I think we're gonna be OK.

    Barack Hussein Obama

  10. #1420
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    So the shooter was a 66 year old white dude from Illinois. He was a huge Bernie supporter who called Hillary "Republican Lite" and spent a ton of time railing against Trump. His Facebook was public and open for comments and it's extremely vile there right now. There's a sickness in this country.

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  12. #1422
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    Another one today, this time in San Francisco.

    http://abc7news.com/amp/news/multipl...ility/2098106/

  13. #1423
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    On the one hand, I'm human and I start to feel really bad for them, how scary it must be, how sad.

    On the other... This is a problem of their own making (mostly GOP). Gun sales loopholes, NRA lobbying and campaign donations, violent rhetoric. Hey, let's not forget about people not always having access to good mental health care, ESPECIALLY THIS WEEK WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE IT AWAY FROM MILLIONS MORE.

    And let's not forget that it's somehow less of a tragedy when a black kid gets shot like a rabid dog for having a toy gun in an open carry state. Like this is supposed to be more sad because it's lawmakers? Whose own laws help facilitate this terrible person to do such a shitty thing? Who didn't give a shit for very long when it was Gabby Giffords?

    Like, I don't approve of this at all and I don't want to live in a country where it becomes open season on politicians, but I'm also not having my usual empathy.

  14. #1424
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    So the shooter was a 66 year old white dude from Illinois. He was a huge Bernie supporter who called Hillary "Republican Lite" and spent a ton of time railing against Trump. His Facebook was public and open for comments and it's extremely vile there right now. There's a sickness in this country.
    Let's call him what he is: an anti-Hillary conspiracy theorist. He's not that different than the true believer/Alex Jones fan who believed that Hillary and John Podesta were running a child sex trafficking operation out of a pizza parlor, and walked in there fully prepared to shoot any child sex traffickers on sight. I commend Bernie for condemning him, but he can do more. We on the left have got to do better than this.

  15. #1425
    Remember. Steve SFM's Avatar
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    Update from Right Wing Fantasyland: Today's shooting is the fault of either Kathy Griffin or Oskar Eustis.
    At my core, I think we're gonna be OK.

    Barack Hussein Obama

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