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Thread: US Elections 2020 - These little earthquakes. Here we go again.

  1. #541
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve SFM View Post
    Sanders routing the field in Nevada. Joy Reid on MSNBC just said something very interesting. She thinks that Sanders supporters are "hungrier". That they just WANT it more. And, she asserted that the hungriest supporters usually win.
    She hates Bernie, too. I just hope that all this Bernie hate translates into something else. I really wanted Warren to sweep. I try not to say that out loud to much bc about half of Warren supporters on twitter are way worse than Bernie supporters as far being harassing or mean (but no one was a bad as white KHivers) as they seemingly hate Sanders more than Trump.

    Also, if you want to read a really wonderful wholesome story about the Sanders team's organizing in Nevada among Latinos and the beautiful work his advisor Chuck Rocha is doing, check this out.

  2. #542
    worth a million in prizes .chris's Avatar
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    Looking at all the polling in the upcoming states and given Sanders' momentum, it is looking really hard to see how anyone else wins this. If that is the case I hope he gets a majority of delegates quickly and decisively.

  3. #543
    Senior Member SloppyJane's Avatar
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    If it really does become Sanders vs. Trump, I really do see a third party candidate getting in there.

    I just know too many people who are passionate voters, but REFUSE to vote for either of them.
    Living in my own personal Cornwall bubble

  4. #544
    Senior Member Andyland's Avatar
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    It's difficult for me to try to get inside the mind of someone who wouldn't be willing to vote for Bernie over Trump, but I also felt that way about folks who said they couldn't possibly vote for Hillary.

  5. #545
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyland View Post
    It's difficult for me to try to get inside the mind of someone who wouldn't be willing to vote for Bernie over Trump, but I also felt that way about folks who said they couldn't possibly vote for Hillary.
    And we haven't hit a high black population state yet. That could change things around a lot. Let's say it does and it ends up being... say Biden. The "Only Bernie" people shrieking about figurative death to moderates might not show up in November. Susan Sarandon was being a fucking psycho again yesterday about it. Biden is hot garbage. Bloomberg is hot garbage. But they are not as hot nor as garbagey as Trump. It's not about full support. It's literally "who is slightly better" and the purity monsters* are going to get us all killed (war, plague, gestapo).

    *"Only Bernie" or "Never Bernie". Both suck.

  6. #546
    Gone Andromeda grapefruit_is_winning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .chris View Post
    If that is the case I hope he gets a majority of delegates quickly and decisively.
    100% agree. Personally I think Bernie is the only Dem with an actual shot of beating Trump, and I have no issues with him. Nor do I worship the ground he walks on, nor do I think he is infallible or whatever. But I do think he is creating a new coalition of voters, which worked quite well for Trumpo on the dark side of the force; and it could work for him. From a recent New Yorker article about the Nevada caucas (bold emphasis mine):

    'But the entrance poll suggested that the electorate was nearly evenly split between people who identified as “very liberal” (thirty per cent), “somewhat liberal” (thirty-five per cent), and “moderate or conservative” (thirty-four per cent). In all three ideological groups, Sanders got the biggest share of the vote, even among self-identified “moderate or conservative” voters.

    That's pretty impressive, frankly.

  7. #547
    Nevertheless, she persisted. Steve SFM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    *"Only Bernie" or "Never Bernie". Both suck.
    YUP.

    Remember: vote for the party that believes in science.
    In November, vote for the candidate who believes in science.

  8. #548
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    I keep getting mailers from Bloomberg and I WANT IT TO STOP. Ugh. I mean, I guess next Monday will be the last time I get some, but still.

    And a reminder to all there's another debate tomorrow and this time Steyer is in it. My predictions: Amy is going to aim for him like Warren did to Bloomberg last time. Elizabeth will still be loaded for bear and it's going to be ugly but since Bloomberg doesn't seem to believe in debate prep, it's going to go almost the same as last time. He might snap back, but it'll make him look petty and mean furthering her numbers.

  9. #549
    Senior Member Puddles's Avatar
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    I'm watching Democrats in the media freaking out over Bernie - Chris Matthews even comparing his win in Nevada to the Nazi conquest of France (pretty fucking disgusting considering Bernie's Jewish, I might add) - and it's a sight to behold. Is everyone just completely mental these days? Left, right, and centre?

  10. #550
    Gone Andromeda grapefruit_is_winning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddles View Post
    Is everyone just completely mental these days? Left, right, and centre?
    everyone and everything. shiz be cray now

  11. #551
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    I think Democrats, especially in purple states, are worried because it will be an uphill climb for Bernie to win those states, and that could lead to us failing to take the Senate or hold the House. The fear of four more years of burning this country to the ground is going to start causing people to say hysterical things.

    If Bernie is the nominee I’ll vote for him, but a lot of moderates won’t. Hell, if Tulsi gets named as VP, I don’t even know what I’ll do. He’s old, he’s had a heart attack, and the chances of President Gabbard scare me.

    A lot of people are scared of Bernie being a Jeremy Corbyn outcome.

    Also, can Chris Matthews just go away? Actually, can all of them? I’m sick of all the corporate media. This is ratings gold for them so it’s just going to be a lot of wildly hot takes that get clicks and headlines. It’s gross.

  12. #552
    Find a way to get in the way. MTC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddles View Post
    Is everyone just completely mental these days? Left, right, and centre?
    Short answer: Yes
    Long answer: Mmmmmm... Yes

    Meanwhile Team Slightly Politer Trump put out a terrible string of tweets imagining things Sanders would say.
    Last edited by MTC; 02-25-2020 at 12:53 AM.
    And the ghosts that we knew will flicker from view
    And we'll live a long life

  13. #553
    Gone Andromeda grapefruit_is_winning's Avatar
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    All of those fears are grounded and reasonable.

    But I also look at it another way. The Repukes ran a "moderate" in in 2012 - McCain. He Lost. The Dems ran a "moderate" in 2016 - Clinton. She Lost. Yes, this is ridiculously oversimplified for convenience, but maybe, just maybe we're seeing a relatively rapid transformation of the parties into something ... new.

    I believe Americans have by and large reached a level of disillusionment with the government where nobody on any side of any opinion or position is going to say "yeah the status quo should be preserved"... "the systems works". We forget history - most people don't understand that our government structure exists in this perennially stalemate, inefficient, essentially dystopian state by design. (I know everyone in this discussion understands these things.)

    I think the first Americans held a higher regard than modern man for the lessons of history and historical context. They created a riddle of government bodies and duties in order to prevent specific aspects of history they'd judged as negative to their kind from repeating themselves. They made it hard on purpose for the laws of the land to change quickly. For practical purposes, they ensured that social mores and cultural norms had to change far ahead of changing legislation (or the votes wouldn't be there).

    Do modern Americans (or any bodies any wheres on the planet for that matter) honestly care about history? We're in such a horrible anti-intellectual age, and also an age where people feel largely entitled to having or at least being allowed to attempt to exert influence over the world around them.

    I don't think as a species we're making decisions based on history at the moment.

    Therefore, I don't think our future behaviors can be predicted effectively by old models.
    Last edited by grapefruit_is_winning; 02-25-2020 at 03:22 AM.

  14. #554
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Bernie bros really need to tone down the rhetoric that anyone who disagrees with them is actively trying to kill vulnerable people. Conservative, crappy dems and DINOs are not the same as Republicans or Trump himself. There is plenty of criticism to be had, but base it in reality and facts.

    This fucking weirdo running for congress in NY is railing against Fred Guttenberg, whose kid was killed in Parkland.



    What BS! He is using his fame to maintain the status quo: 68K Americans dying every year due to lack of health care. THAT is what fighting against Sanders and #M4A is all about. Crony capitalism for private insurance companies.
    His. Fame. The platform he has from a dead CHILD. Jesus wept that's insane.

    It is valid for someone's first priority to be for gun control. It's valid for someone to be M4A. Those are opinions. The true fact and most valid opinion is mine: ain't nothing gonna get done on ANY Dem issue if priority #1 isn't voting reform (registration, the actual process, Citizens United and financing, district alignments, EC reform, etc).

    While on paper I agree with many if not most of Bernie's policies, I don't think he's the best general candidate. It doesn't mean I want people to die and go bankrupt in medical debt. I just think someone else would be able to get more done. Perfect world, magic wand: Bernie's plan is best or close enough to best. Real world with R Senate headed by Mitch: nothing is happening. Hopeful real world where we pick up a couple Senate seats and at least make it close in numbers? A more moderate plan is the most likely to actually pass and go into law. Does Bernie know that on the inside? Is he going to compromise or is it all or nothing? I don't want a mediocre patch on the ACA but I REALLLLLLLLLLY don't want *nothing* because it's not "pure". I'd rather have 30% of a decent plan than nothing. I don't know if he has the political clout to really push through something more radical (which, again, is something we should be doing).

    It's a spectrum. Even gross horrible Bloomberg is better than Trump on most things. Not agreeing on top priority doesn't make someone complicit in the system just by itself. I wasn't YangGang and I think he was overly simplistic, but his UBI idea, however impractical, was a valid, interesting idea worthy of serious consideration. Does that make him somehow a bad person because it wasn't M4A? He was just giving a different solution to the same problem. You can decide it wasn't the best solution but it's not like he was cackling going "Fools! Now you shall die without your Euro-style M4A!"

    eta: the primaries aren't ballot initiatives. You're voting not for plans but for whom you think has the best plans AND can get those plans to happen. Bernie may have top tier plans but I don't think the potential success rate is worth the risk. A more moderate plan isn't my idea of perfection, but I'm being more practical than hopeful.
    Last edited by Regina Phalange; 02-25-2020 at 12:13 PM.

  15. #555
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    Bernie bros really need to tone down the rhetoric that anyone who disagrees with them is actively trying to kill vulnerable people. Conservative, crappy dems and DINOs are not the same as Republicans or Trump himself. There is plenty of criticism to be had, but base it in reality and facts.

    This fucking weirdo running for congress in NY is railing against Fred Guttenberg, whose kid was killed in Parkland.





    His. Fame. The platform he has from a dead CHILD. Jesus wept that's insane.

    It is valid for someone's first priority to be for gun control. It's valid for someone to be M4A. Those are opinions. The true fact and most valid opinion is mine: ain't nothing gonna get done on ANY Dem issue if priority #1 isn't voting reform (registration, the actual process, Citizens United and financing, district alignments, EC reform, etc).

    While on paper I agree with many if not most of Bernie's policies, I don't think he's the best general candidate. It doesn't mean I want people to die and go bankrupt in medical debt. I just think someone else would be able to get more done. Perfect world, magic wand: Bernie's plan is best or close enough to best. Real world with R Senate headed by Mitch: nothing is happening. Hopeful real world where we pick up a couple Senate seats and at least make it close in numbers? A more moderate plan is the most likely to actually pass and go into law. Does Bernie know that on the inside? Is he going to compromise or is it all or nothing? I don't want a mediocre patch on the ACA but I REALLLLLLLLLLY don't want *nothing* because it's not "pure". I'd rather have 30% of a decent plan than nothing. I don't know if he has the political clout to really push through something more radical (which, again, is something we should be doing).

    It's a spectrum. Even gross horrible Bloomberg is better than Trump on most things. Not agreeing on top priority doesn't make someone complicit in the system just by itself. I wasn't YangGang and I think he was overly simplistic, but his UBI idea, however impractical, was a valid, interesting idea worthy of serious consideration. Does that make him somehow a bad person because it wasn't M4A? He was just giving a different solution to the same problem. You can decide it wasn't the best solution but it's not like he was cackling going "Fools! Now you shall die without your Euro-style M4A!"

    eta: the primaries aren't ballot initiatives. You're voting not for plans but for whom you think has the best plans AND can get those plans to happen. Bernie may have top tier plans but I don't think the potential success rate is worth the risk. A more moderate plan isn't my idea of perfection, but I'm being more practical than hopeful.
    It's almost like they're cable news pundits comparing Sanders to Nazis or people criticizing Sanders' praise of literacy programs in Cuba and comparing that to supporting Hitler and death camps and hating gay people.

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