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Thread: US Elections 2020 - These little earthquakes. Here we go again.

  1. #706
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    Christ if it’s Kamala I’m not even going to to the polls for top-ticket (before you lecture me, I live in California, and my vote means so totally nothing that I’d rather not throw my lot in with a rapist and a cop).

  2. #707
    Senior Member SloppyJane's Avatar
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    Why does everyone think Biden is going to be a horrible president?

    Just curious to know what he's going to do in the White House that's going to be so bad.

    I get that he's not a very exciting person. But his policies and choices are very much in line with some of the most liberal ideals.

    And I know it's been said before, but yes, if he wins, he will be the most liberal president we've ever had.

    We're *very* lucky to be in a country where we have this opportunity. We just need to make sure we take it.
    Living in my own personal Cornwall bubble

  3. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by SloppyJane View Post
    But his policies and choices are very much in line with some of the most liberal ideals.
    He's against universal healthcare, against college debt elimination, wants to INCREASE the already insane defense budget, has shitty immigration policies, is against legalizing marijuana, and has not supported a repeal on restrictions to funding abortions which fucks over poor women. I would not say he's in line with any of the most liberal ideas.

  4. #709
    megaphone to my chest MikeEP's Avatar
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    ETA: nevermind, not taking the bait.

  5. #710
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    Plus he's a rapist.

    I mean, I guess between Trump, Bill Clinton and Biden, raping women is becoming an asset in vying for the Oval Office.

  6. #711
    Florence is not your bitch. Steve SFM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perky Compson View Post
    Christ if it’s Kamala I’m not even going to to the polls for top-ticket (before you lecture me, I live in California, and my vote means so totally nothing that I’d rather not throw my lot in with a rapist and a cop).
    This is what I've said over the years when people bitched at me for voting Nader in 2000 and Stein in 2012. (I wish I could have that latter one back.)

    I think Bernie did the right thing. An ongoing struggle against huge odds is fine; it can give the second place more influence on the platform and agenda going forward. But not now. He needs to be in the game to fight for more progressive stimulus bills. Right now, the virus actually IS everything.

    Some people in Bernie Twitter are demanding that Biden choose Nina Turner for VP. LOL. She's never gone higher than state legislator, and she's pretty sharply partisan. If we want a WOC as VP, Stacey Abrams looks best to me.
    You are not burdening anyone who truly cares about you, by telling someone you feel scared by this. It is scary. Don’t try and be a hero, just be fucking afraid and tell someone. Jessica Barden

  7. #712
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SloppyJane View Post
    Why does everyone think Biden is going to be a horrible president?

    Just curious to know what he's going to do in the White House that's going to be so bad.

    I get that he's not a very exciting person. But his policies and choices are very much in line with some of the most liberal ideals.

    And I know it's been said before, but yes, if he wins, he will be the most liberal president we've ever had.

    We're *very* lucky to be in a country where we have this opportunity. We just need to make sure we take it.
    He's running on a conservative platform by which I mean, "a return to the past." Which is fine. It echoes Harding's campaign 100 years ago and a "return to normalcy." That's not real issue I think. I think the real issue is that he will lose. I tried to think about this for myself and campaigning. If I were campaigning for Sanders or Warren in the general, then I could be campaigning for something new, right? I could go to people and say, "Hey look, here's something new for you!" With Biden, it would be, "Hey look, I know you thought Obama was a disappointment after 2012, but don't you think his VP is better than the other guy?"

    No one has ever won a campaign on, "Have you seen the other guy?" against an incumbent. Even Jimmy Carter, who was considered too conservative wasn't seen as a safe bet. Carter had to win with vision. When Reagan ran against him in 1980, he also offered vision.

  8. #713
    Florence is not your bitch. Steve SFM's Avatar
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    I honestly do believe that the virus changes everything. We're rewriting the rules as we go along.
    You are not burdening anyone who truly cares about you, by telling someone you feel scared by this. It is scary. Don’t try and be a hero, just be fucking afraid and tell someone. Jessica Barden

  9. #714
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    [QUOTE=uncanny hats;566449]No one has ever won a campaign on, "Have you seen the other guy?" against an incumbent./QUOTE]

    Anyone betting on "he's not Trump" to be a winning strategy needs to ask John Kerry how that went.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve SFM View Post
    I honestly do believe that the virus changes everything. We're rewriting the rules as we go along.
    You would hope, but then Biden just last week (or 2 weeks ago? What is time?) still dug his heels in over no universal healthcare saying it would not help things. Well, I personally know people who even if they felt like they were dying would not go to the hospital because if they live, they won't be able to afford the tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills, so it really feels like that would be helpful now and always, Joe!

    Quote Originally Posted by Perky Compson View Post
    Plus he's a rapist.

    I mean, I guess between Trump, Bill Clinton and Biden, raping women is becoming an asset in vying for the Oval Office.
    So many backs are breaking while bending to suddenly be all "Well, I don't mean believe ALL women. We have to be reasonable". I shouldn't be surprised but it's still incredibly disappointing. I mean it's really always been "I believe women until they accuse someone I like / have an interest in supporting". Wonderful message for us survivors.

  10. #715
    Senior Member Nick's Avatar
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    I'm impressed with Bernie's decision and timing; I was very nervous this was going to drag on until the convention. Moving to the general election is one weight off during an already heavy time for the country. By all accounts he genuinely likes Biden (he definitely wasn't winning any Oscars pretending he could stand Hillary, nor was Hillary with Obama in 2008) and I hope that the early and shockingly amiable end to this primary will give a lot of wounds time to heal (honestly it kills me to think of Warren and Bernie not getting along; can they hug it out now too?).

    There's still going to be plenty of unyielding third-party voters who pretend to care about Bernie's message but will take their toys and go home, spewing that Biden is just as bad as Trump in the process (and even more Russian bots amplifying their message - warning: do not visit Reddit today). But I hope some of the younger voters who became engaged because of Bernie will stay engaged and honor his endorsement while finding other ways to advance the causes they care about.

    I still don't see anything Trump has done to build his base in the last 4 years, and Biden is not encumbered by the sheer, visceral hatred that many people had for Hillary. Biden also won't have it "in the bag" on election day like Hillary supposedly did, which I would contend was the single biggest vote-suppression issue in 2016 (aside from actual physical voter suppression). I accept that Trump's cult is big and motivated, but I don't see why Biden wouldn't out-perform Hillary who lost by a few thousand votes in a few key states. I expect a close race, but I have no idea why anyone would throw their hands up and say "oh it's definitely 100% over" because the moderate won two years after moderate victories helped us take back the House.

    The Senate, two Supreme Court justices, countless federal judges - fuck this is gonna be a big one.

  11. #716
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    In a lot of ways, progressives have lost. Even if Biden wins, we get 4-8 years of centrism, and then it will flip to the Republicans again like it basically always does, and we'll get 4-8 years of that, and boom, we'll have over a decade of administrations where no one's willing to abide by basic things like "maybe people should be able to see doctors when they're sick" or "maybe the war on drugs was racist" or "maybe we shouldn't run a government on slave labor" or "maybe we shouldn't rape women". A whole generation of children growing into adults who will have never known a president who wasn't a rapist and wanted to provide healthcare and gave a shit about poverty.

    It's not that "they're both as bad", it's that they're both godawful and one's just more aggressively godawful than the other, and those of us on the far left are allowed to mourn that. It sucks that we live in a country that's okay with all this horrible stuff. It sucks that even the better - I won't say good - but better option is effectively pro-rape, pro-denying healthcare, pro-prison slavery and anti-poor, and manages to not get called on it because 1) the other guy is worse and 2) he dresses it up with enough superficial augmentations and empty gestures that people don't report it for what it is.

    Bernie wasn't a saint, neither was Warren, but at least they stood for the fact that the status quo is and has always been unacceptable in this country, and will remain so as long as people are dying without insulin, teenagers are being separated from their families and put in detention over marijuana charges, prisoners are making equipment for our military for pennies an hour, and every American president a little girl sees has been accused of rape. Biden thinks the status quo was fine, and it's crushing.

    Thank goodness I live in California and don't need to care about anything but downticket. The freedom of despair!
    Last edited by Perky Compson; 04-09-2020 at 04:15 AM.

  12. #717
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perky Compson View Post
    Even if Biden wins, we get 4-8 years of centrism
    Not only that, but complacency from the temporarily outraged on the left who think things only got bad since Trump got elected. Ignoring how bad things were for so many even under Obama, an era they cite as "when things were good". The people who have always been crushed by the system will continue to be crushed and die, but the people who never really had to worry will feel safe again and nothing will change. There will be no pink pussy hats in the streets when/if Biden gets inaugurated and people can go back to pretending everything is fine (once the worst of the pandemic is over).

  13. #718
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    Well said and exactly.

  14. #719
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Dems: Support the nominee. Quit whining that your candidate (Bernie) didn't win, you petulant children

    Reps: Support Trump. Quit whining that your candidate (Hillary) didn't win, you petulant children.

    What never gets folks to your side: Calling them whiners or petulant.

    There's so much to say. Remember how Bernie's bros were fake? Or that Cubans weren't going to support him over his views about Castro. Or that he copied Liz Warren.

    I don't know, man. There's an old saying that Republicans will stab you in the stomach and let you know when they do it. Democrats are sneaky about. The extreme amounts of lying are disappointing. And after it all, the expectation after a year or so of "Bernie supporters will support Trump, this is why we need to vote not him!!!!! Toxic br0s!" We now have to fall inline with the most "electable" guy (who clearly isn't that electable if Trump's stealing Democrats away from him) because Trump will win.

    I have no issue with voting Biden, because I have a point to prove.

    But for every moderate: make policy arguments. Lefties are all about the policy in politics. Maybe Joe can move more left instead taking a shit on everyone? Maybe he can address the assaults and harassment? Maybe can he do something other than feel coronated?

    Edit: My biggest worry about all this that it's just pageantry to so many people. It's how someone can claim to oppose Trump but somehow go gaga over the Queen of England who is literally the official symbol of White Anglo-Saxon Protestant supremacy.

    As if it's never about caring about people. It's about looking smart and enlightened, and feeling better than everyone else. Basically, everything that makes Donald Trump tick
    Last edited by uncanny hats; 04-10-2020 at 03:06 PM.

  15. #720
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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